283 Master Gardener Fall Preparation Tips; Old Pesticides

Show Transcript

GB 283 TRANSCRIPT Fall Garden Prep. Old Pesticides

Farmer Fred  0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

We are about a week away from the official beginning of Autumn. Is your garden ready for the transition to shorter days, more moderate temperatures, and cool season fruits and vegetables? Today, we talk with four Master Gardeners about several aspects of your backyard paradise.

Taking out tomato plants? We have suggestions for what to do with all those tomatoes still on the plants!

Before you plant your fall and winter vegetables and flowers, we get tips on reinvigorating your soil after you remove your summer crops.

Fall is a great time to enjoy what may be the last flush of flowers on your rose bushes. We tell you what you should be doing to them to get them ready for a bloomtastic 2024.

Your fruit trees, both the deciduous and evergreen shrubs and trees, need special attention in early Autumn to stave off pests and diseases and reinvigorate them for their next harvest. We get the do’s and don’t of fall fruit tree care.

And, America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, says: check those garden pesticides that have been around the garage for several years. Some of them may be useless, or even dangerous.

It’s all right here, in episode number 283,  Fall Garden Preparation; and, How Long Can You Store Pesticides?

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots, and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

FALL VEGETABLE GARDEN PREPARATION

Farmer Fred

We're here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, in the vegetable section.  And because of the time of the year, as summer transitions into fall, there's a lot of work going on here as the judgment goes on as far as which plants to take out and which plants to keep harvesting. We're talking with Master Gardener and vegetable expert extraordinaire Gail Pothour. Gail, when it comes to the transition of summer to fall gardening, I think one of the big problems that people have is they are thinking: “I’ve got all these plants! Where am I going to plant anything for the fall? Where am I going to put garlic or onions or broccoli or cauliflower? Sometimes you have to make some hard decisions.

Gail Pothour  2:46

Correct. And that's why it's a good idea to actually plan your fall garden when you plan your spring garden, because then you'll know what will be finished, for example, in September. And then you can start planning your fall garden. So you know, if you make a plan ahead of time, and know what will come out early so that you can put in your fall garden. Or, you just bite the bullet and just start taking plants out right now. I'm cutting back on our melons, we don't want it sending any more fruit because the plants are going to come out. So we want all the energy going into ripening the fruit that's on there. And then we'll take the melons out and begin putting in our winter garden.

Farmer Fred  3:19

So when it comes to pruning a plant to stop new production, but allow production of the existing plants to continue, what parts do you prune out?

Gail Pothour  3:27

Anything with the new growth and the flowers. So with the melons that I'm doing this morning, we don't want any new fruit to set. So I'm cutting off all the flowers  in the new growth and we do have some melons that are getting pretty close to ripening maybe in the next week or two. And that's what I want to have ripen in this warm sun that we have still in the summer. And then the plants come out. And I found that even if you baby the plants into fall, the melons don't tend to have a sweeter flavor because the days are getting shorter, even though we still have some warm weather. It's not the prolonged heat that we have in summer. So to me, it's not worth it.

Farmer Fred  4:03

After you take out a plant, but before you put in a new plant, what do you do with the soil?

Gail Pothour  4:08

We put in some Nutri-Rich, that happens to be the fertilizer of our choice. It's a pelleted chicken manure, but put in any kind of good organic fertilizer to replenish the soil because the summer crops have been heavy feeders and they've done a lot all through the hot hot summer so they've depleted the soil. So you need to put in some kind of fertilizer. Compost would be good. If you have worm castings, you could do that as well. Or you could even grow a cover crop, something that grows quickly. Buckwheat grows in about five weeks. If you planted it now, in early September, then by October, you'd cut that down and incorporate that into the soil. So that's another thing you can do to help get your soil kind of some nutrients.

Farmer Fred  4:48

When it comes to any cover crop, though, you do want to cut it down before it flowers too much. Maybe when you first start seeing flowers appear, that's when you start weed whacking it back and let it lay on the surface of the soil or you can work it in, or top it with some compost and mulch.

Gail Pothour  5:02

Yeah. And buckwheat grows so fast and it's so tender that it breaks down really fast. Some of the winter cover crops are real thick and they are a little more difficult for them to decompose. But buckwheat grows fast. You certainly want to cut it down just as it's flowering. Because if it goes to seed, which it will in the following week, it becomes a weed. And when it's flowering, that's when the plant is most nutritious. So that's when you want to cut it down.

Farmer Fred  5:25

Explain to people why you use buckwheat. Why are you incorporating a living plant into the soil?

Gail Pothour  5:30

Well, one thing about buckwheat is it pulls up phosphorus,  which isn't very mobile in the soil. So that's good for that. It does have a taproot so it helps break up the soil a bit. It just provides a lot of organic matter when you do cut it down and turn it into the soil.

Farmer Fred  5:44

I would imagine, too, there's nitrogen involved, right? And especially if the plant is still green.

Gail Pothour  5:48

If you let it dry on the surface, not so much, but you could use it as a mulch. If you did that, let it dry on the surface. It takes the place of straw or some other mulch you could use.

Farmer Fred  5:59

Now you mentioned about using a fertilizer. Does it have to be a granular fertilizer or can you use a liquid fertilizer?

Gail Pothour  6:06

Well, you know, we generally use a liquid fertilizer to supplement the nutrition throughout the growing season. We like to use a granular fertilizer that we incorporate into the soil. If you do something that's organic, it's going to have small numbers like 4-3-3 instead of 16 16 16. Use the fertilizer of your choice. We choose to do an organic type of fertilizer.

Farmer Fred  6:26

That's important, too, about the single numbers that you're going to see on any bag or box of fertilizer. You're going to see three numbers that represent nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, and plants don't need a whole heck of a lot of those nutrients. They just need those single digits like the 4-3-3 You mentioned it'd be 4% nitrogen, 3% phosphorus, 3% Potassium.

Gail Pothour  6:44

Right. And cool season crops aren't quite the heavy feeders. It's the the summer crops that are heavy feeders. Summer crops really take a beating. They have to contend with the hot weather, windy days, and dry soil. So they really need to have the soil prepared well before you plant them. Cool season crops aren't quite as picky but still it's a good idea to incorporate some kind of organic matter and some fertilizer.

Farmer Fred  7:04

I think the big takeaway from this is after you remove your summer crops, don't immediately start planting your fall flowers and vegetables. Help out the soil.

Gail Pothour  7:14

Right. At home, I've done that. I took my beans out a month ago, they were pretty much pooped out. So then I amend the soil, getting ready to plant my carrots in those particular spots. If you do incorporate any kind of fertilizer or a cover crop you do want to let it decompose a little while before you plant.

Farmer Fred  7:30

And I would think to water it in.

Gail Pothour

Watering, for sure. Yeah.

Farmer Fred

We've got some tips on how to transition our gardens from summer into fall. Gail Pothour,  Master Gardener, here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. She's a Sacramento County Master Gardener, Gail, thanks for the good advice.

Gail Pothour  7:44

Anytime, Fred.

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FALL FRUIT TREE CARE

Farmer Fred

We are here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. We are finding out which garden chores to tackle as we transition from summer into fall. What should you be doing in the various parts of your garden? Now, we are in the orchard section here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center with Master Gardener Quentyn Young. What is on your list of things to do this time of year in September and October? And we should point out that the orchard here has a wide variety of fruit trees. And there's also a citrus orchard as well. What is at the top of your list as far as things to do this time of year?

Quentyn Young  10:21

For our deciduous fruit trees, we're actually trying to wrap up most of our summer pruning, we want to get that done usually no later than about October.

Farmer Fred  10:30

With summer pruning, what you're doing is maintaining height control. But if you're doing it as late as October, you may be cutting off some of next year’s fruiting buds.

Quentyn Young  10:37

We are cutting off some buds. But that also helps us with fruit thinning later. It's also helping us keep the canopies open, depending on the tree and the style of tree that we want to prune it into. But yeah, that's all good stuff that we try to get done before fall.

Farmer Fred  10:52

For people who are unfamiliar with the concept of summer pruning, it's fairly new, maybe popular the last 20 or 30 years or so. But it really gives you a good opportunity to get in there to control the height of the tree.

Quentyn Young  11:04

Yeah, so what we try to get across to the public with a backyard orchard is you really want your fruit trees to roughly be six to eight feet tall. That way,  you can get up there, you can pick the fruit by hand, maybe use just a little stepstool. But you're not having to get up there with a commercial size ladder, up to that 20 foot range, to pick fruit. Because usually at that height, if you don't get it, the rats and the birds do.

Farmer Fred  11:27

What about watering? Do they need as much water? Here we are in September, there are still warm days, but they're shorter days. Should the watering be adjusted accordingly?

Quentyn Young  11:36

Yeah, especially after harvest, we usually reduce the watering by about 50%.

Farmer Fred  11:41

And then probably when the rainy season starts, if you live in an area that has a rainy season like we do here in California.

Quentyn Young  11:47

Yeah, fingers crossed. And then we'll just cut the water off completely. And we'll hope for another rainy winter like we had last year.

Farmer Fred  11:52

Now there are some here in California, especially in agricultural areas, if they're growing walnuts or almonds or pistachios, the permanent crops, if you will, they may have to water year round.

Quentyn Young  12:04

Yeah, depending on how much of a rainy winter we have.

Farmer Fred  12:08

Now over in the orchard adjunct area, where the citrus trees are, you have a long row of various citrus trees. And they all develop fruit at different times. And if you're in an area where you're growing citrus, you may see green fruit on there now, and on others, you might not see any. Should you be worried?

Quentyn Young  12:26

It depends on what it is. Some of your mandarins and Satsumas, they're going to be alternate bearing. So if you had a great crop last year, you probably won't get a good crop this year. So I wouldn't worry about that too much. We do go through and do a little bit of fruit thinning. But right now, keeping in mind, the citrus pruning, we sort of shape them throughout the year, We're getting rid of water sprouts, and then we're also raising up some of the lower branches, anticipating rain that might be splashing fungal spores back up into the branches.

Farmer Fred  12:55

It's very important, too,  to maintain a layer of mulch under the trees as well, I would think.

Quentyn Young  13:00

Definitely, yeah, we put down a really nice, thick layer of wood chips here. We pretty much put those down usually almost every workday. And if you come to the Horticulture Center, you'll see that. It’s definitely a nice layer of mulch.

Farmer Fred  13:11

Is there a season when you should not be pruning citrus trees?

Quentyn Young  13:14

Oddly, no. Some people will say, Oh, don't prune right before the winter because you might get a cold snap that takes out some of the tender new growth. But I found that it doesn't really effect the overall performance of the tree.

Farmer Fred  13:25

So you can prune year round, and what you're saying is basically you're just maintaining the size of the tree. But is that shaping process involving heading cuts or thinning cuts?

Quentyn Young  13:33

It depends on the tree. Some of them are gonna be heading cuts, if they're rubbing or if we want to open up the interior. You'll notice that like we have a grapefruit tree that's under an oak tree, it tends to be fairly dark. So we try to keep the center open because it always gets cottony cushion scale. So those would be thinning cuts. And then the heading cuts are usually just along the top of the citrus. You'll see how we try to keep them at fence height. And if we decide that we're going to cover them in the winter, they're really easy to cover with frost cloth.

Farmer Fred  14:03

Here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, it’s adjacent to a community garden here in Fair Oaks Park. I'm staring at one heck of a tall banana plant.

Quentyn Young  14:13

Really nice to see. Yeah. And we actually are going to probably do two bananas here in the orchard. I have them at home right now. I'll probably babysit them over the winter this year before we bring them out next year.

Farmer Fred  14:23

If people want to try growing banana plants in USDA zone nine, you really are at the mercy of the weather. And you'll probably get winter dieback, but it's not fatal.

Quentyn Young  14:33

No it's not fatal. The main thing you want to do is give them really good drainage, because they will be susceptible to crown rot in our heavy, cold, wet, clay soil in the winter. So amend the soil really well. And we're going to probably even try maybe one of them in a wine barrel.

Farmer Fred  14:47

That would be, hopefully, not too big a plant.

Quentyn Young  14:50

Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, because that one over there is probably a good 15 feet tall already.

Farmer Fred  14:54

All right, as we transition from summer to fall, don't ignore your fruit trees. There's still lots to do. When would you feed your citrus trees and your deciduous fruit trees? Or do you even bother doing that if you're maintaining a four inch layer of mulch?

Quentyn Young  15:08

We don't feed our deciduous fruit trees, except for any fruit tree we have in a barrel. We feed every month, which I would recommend also for citrus trees in containers. The only trees that we really feed here are the citrus trees in the ground, and we usually feed them in April when the ground warms up and we use blood meal and Nutra-Rich.

Farmer Fred  15:29

Alright,  that's the second time today I've heard about Nutri-Rich. We'll have a link for Nutri-Rich, which is pelletized chicken manure.

Quentyn Young  15:37

I think the fertilizer macronutrient numbers like 3-2-1, plus it's about 7% Calcium, I think. It’s organic, it won’t burn, and you can use it pretty much for everything.  A 50 pound bag, is maybe 20 bucks. Around 20 bucks, depending on where you get it. But yeah, it's heavy, but it lasts a long time.

Farmer Fred  15:53

Again, we'll have a link to that in the show notes. Quentyn Young is here at the orchard at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. Thanks so much.

Quentyn Young

Thanks, Fred.

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Farmer Fred

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FALL ROSE CARE

Farmer Fred

We're at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, and they're having a workshop on this Saturday. And it's a Saturday that is during a transition season. It's mid September and soon it will be fall. The weather is still warm, but it's going to cool off. So we got to think about fall garden chores. We are with Anita Clevenger in the perennial plant section, and Anita has been a Master Gardener since 2002. But your also a rose expert. What needs to be done with roses this time of year? I bet you can get here in California and around USDA zone nine, you can at least get one more good bloom, if not two more good blooms out of it. But how do you prepare your roses for winter?

Anita Clevenger  18:06

The first thing to do is keep on deadheading. As you said you can have roses blooming once or twice more. And right now we are having a fall flush. In early September, often, the roses begin to wake up and bloom again. I keep on deadheading to encourage it. At some point though, you'll stop. And then those fruits develop on the end of the canes. That's actually the whole point of the rose flower. That is the beginning of the rose seed pod, also known as a hip. And you can allow those hips to develop. It won't hurt the rose, but the rose will stop blooming because it's done its job. It is blooming to reproduce. So once those hips have been developed, the rose will take a break. And you do want them to take a break, because the roses in our climate don't know when to quit. And so you want to prune them when they're as dormant as possible. And often they're not very dormant. I prune after the holidays, between Christmas and Valentine's Day. That’s our cut off point. So what you want to do is have the roses slow down. And so at some point you stop deadheading, you allow the hips, if the rose is going to be wanting to develop it, you allow it to develop. And if you're going to fertilize, I would do it about now and not again. If you didn't fertilize all summer, this is a good time to give them a little bit more. Frankly, I don't fertilize my roses In the spring, I put down some compost, just a little bit. I don't do a periodic one. But if you want to boost the flowers and for rose health, you can do it. But I wouldn't do it later than the end of this month (September).

Farmer Fred  19:53

Yeah, the benefit of using compost or mulch beneath even ornamental plants is it's slowly feeding the soil year round. And there's no need to add extra fertilizer.

Anita Clevenger  20:04

That's correct. And I also put down alfalfa. And there have been some scientific studies that say it will produce some additional new canes, what they call basel breaks,  canes from the soil, and there is scientific research that has documented that. And so  after I prune, I put down fresh compost, I put down alfalfa pellets, I might do some organic fertilizer also. So in the spring, I get them ready to go. And then all I do the rest of the year is just to keep them weeded, pick up any diseased leaves. And generally this time of year, disease is less of a problem. But picking those off of the plant and picking them up from the soil is also a good idea.

Farmer Fred  20:49

We've also already experienced a little bit of rain in our area. It wasn't very much. But as September becomes October and November, we just might see a gully washer or two. And then you really do have to be serious about getting out there and cleaning up.

Anita Clevenger  21:03

That's true. Yeah, and you'll see maybe some spots or some blotches on your roses. And that's actually a disease known as botrytis. And you don't want that to land on the soil either. So you want to clean that up.

Farmer Fred  21:17

And speaking of how these diseases spread, which is by water, I would hope that most rose growers are, if you have rose plants, they're not getting hit directly by an overhead sprinkler from the lawn.

Anita Clevenger  21:28

in California where we're so dry, overhead watering on roses, I think, generally has little problem and has some benefits through the summer when you have spider mites and the roses get dusty that and hot. That and stress. That is a period when the spider mites move in. And the best treatment to remove spider mites is to wash off the foliage. Keep them clean and add moisture. You just want to do it in the morning. So things can dry out. In the spring, people ask me what do you do for aphids? I squish them and spray them. And generally one hand squishes and one hand sprays.  I knock them off with water. I don't spray with anything but water. And those are fragile little bugs and you might leave a few for the beneficial insects and the birds to feed on. But water spray really isn't as damaging as you might think. But you don't want them wet overnight.

Farmer Fred  22:30

Well, as we're fond of saying, all gardening is local. So it really depends on your humidity levels. So if you live in an area that has a higher humidity level, including coastal California, and you're trying to grow roses, maybe readjust your lawn sprinklers.

Anita Clevenger  22:44

That's correct. But again, it is local. And I have found that most rose books really aren't specific to California. And so what you're reading is advice from elsewhere,  even from England or for the Midwest, the rest of the country. It's very different here. This is a great climate for roses.

Farmer Fred  23:04

I'll put in a plug for my friend Lance Walheim, who has written several books about rose growing, that can be found usually  on used book lists. And he is a California rose grower and has lots of good advice for California rose growers as well as the varieties that may do better here than elsewhere.

Anita Clevenger  23:24

I'm an old rose grower, not a modern rose grower. The only modern rose i have is Mr. Lincoln, which is about as old as I am. So it's not that modern of a rose. You can't see me but there's a lot of gray hair and wrinkles. But I grow things like the “Perle d’ Or” that we have here in the demonstration garden. It is a spray polyantha rose, it's a relative of Cecile Brunner, it's the same type of rose. I often have others, like bourbon roses and  tea roses that are still growing. Some years I'm only able to find a few blooms to put into my Thanksgiving bouquet. And some years I have 20. I’m growing old roses.

Farmer Fred  24:05

As a tomato grower, it's always nice to have the tomatoes on the dinner table for Thanksgiving, but I wouldn't want to show them what the plant looks like in the last week of November. And I would think the same might be true with roses.

Anita Clevenger  24:16

Oh, my roses look pretty good still. Then again because I grow the old roses and they're more of a shrub rose. They are a garden landscape shrub in addition to a flowering plant.

Farmer Fred  24:27

From the top of your head, what are some of the best old roses to grow?

Anita Clevenger  24:31

I already mentioned “Perle d’ Or” and “Cecile Brunner”.

Farmer Fred

Do you recommend “Cecile Brunner”?

Anita Clevenger

I do, as a climber. It is, as we talked about it before I was on air with you, it's a rampant, once bloomer generally. But you can find a shrub or a spray version of it.  I'm thinking, what do I really love? I love the China roses that are more twiggy and they bloom. They're basically evergreen and ever-blooming.  And so one rose that I really love is called Archduke Charles. And many of these old roses you have to go online to order, we no longer have them at plant sales here, generally, where they're being sold.

Farmer Fred  25:13

Well, since you gave me that wide opening, I will mention that until October 30, if you go to heirloomroses.com, and in the checkout coupon box, if you enter the code, Fred20, you will get 20% off your purchase, but that's only till the end of October of 2023.

Anita Clevenger  25:32

And they grow many old roses. In fact, they started out as heirloom old garden roses, and they pride themselves that their roses are on their own roots, which is a good way to grow many of the old roses. So yes, I'm glad that you've got that deal going.

Farmer Fred  25:48

And Anita, it’s nice talking with you. Nice to see you, Anita Clevenger, Master Gardener with the Sacramento County Master Gardeners. We're here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center in the beautiful perennial garden where there are some great old roses.

Anita Clevenger  25:59

There are. Which were put in with my advice and another of the volunteers that grows them. We actually have three kinds here, two of which are UC Davis all stars. So when they're recommending what to plant in the modern gardens, they're looking to the old roses.

Farmer Fred  26:15

We will have a link to the UC Davis arboretum all stars in the show notes. Anita, thank you.

Anita Clevenger  26:18

Thank you. You're welcome.

BEYOND THE GARDEN BASICS NEWSLETTER/PODCAST

Farmer Fred  26:24

One of the best soil amendments to add for happy plants are worm castings, also known as worm poop. However, the price of a bag of worm castings approaches twenty dollars, so you may want to tack on a new “to-do” item for the soil in your garden: vermicomposting, which is raising worms, usually in a worm bin. Those worms will feast on many of your kitchen scraps, giving you back a soil amendment teeming with microbial activity, perfect for plant roots to enjoy. We’re talking worms and worm bins in the latest Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter.

And If the worms in your vermiculture system could talk, what would they tell you this time of year, as fall approaches? Master Gardener Susan Muckey, the Worm Whisperer, passes along their entreaties in the podcast portion of that newsletter.

If you are already a Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter subscriber, it’s probably in your email, waiting for you right now. Or, you can start a subscription, it’s free! Find the link to the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter and podcast in today’s show notes, or on the Substack app. Or, you can sign up at the newsletter link at our homepage, gardenbasics dot net.

FALL TOMATO PRESERVATION TIPS

Farmer Fred

We're in sort of a transition period as far as weather goes. Summer sort of melds into fall. The days are still warm, sometimes hot, but there will be cooling, and we have to think about fall garden chores. And one of those fall garden chores that you could be accomplishing now is tearing out the unproductive vegetable plants from your current garden, the warm season crops, in order to prep the soil to put in the cool season crops or the cool season ornamentals. Master Gardener Kathy Morrison is here. We are at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. Kathy is a Master Gardener, an excellent cook, and one of the editors and writers with the Sacramento Digs Gardening newsletter, where there is a recipe using home grown produce every Sunday. But the newsletter comes out every day. They're busy people. I've been casing my garden, Kathy, looking at the tomato plants that have been unproductive, basically giving them grades from A through F. And I think this weekend I will be pulling out the F ones and reworking that soil. But they're may still be tomatoes on them. What can I do with some of those tomatoes or peppers or zucchini or whatever?

Kathy Morrison  28:47

You can freeze them, if they're ripe and you want to tear it out. You can freeze them. Certainly peppers you can freeze. Just about any level of ripeness of tomatoes. I've pulled off green tomatoes and made chutney with them if you want to. If there's a tomato plant you really just got to get rid of, but there's just enough on there. I think it was a Juliet, they last forever and then winter comes and you get rid of the plant. So yeah, that makes a really nice chutney. But yeah, some of them are just flat unproductive and some have quit for the summer and we've got two weeks of summer left but they've taken an early break. I have a couple of heirlooms that are just like done, that I'm slowly hacking back because they're all wrapped around a couple other tomato plants and I want to put my garlic in soon. So I need  some space. I tend to fill up the whole garden during the summer. And then it's like, oh dear, I need space for the garlic. I'm working on that. Definitely.

Farmer Fred  29:40

Let's talk about freezing tomatoes, since you mentioned that. What sort of preparation is needed before you freeze tomatoes?

Kathy Morrison  29:46

Well, I wash them, I cull them.  Look for any bruises or anything that might be a problem. And I tend to cut them up if they're regular slicer sized tomatoes. I'll cut them into quarters or halves, depending on the size. I put them in a freezer-safe plastic bag. You can also use a plastic container, those tend to take up room, though. Freezing tomatoes has one big benefit: when you take them out and defrost them, the skins come right off. So you don't have to worry about taking the skins off ahead of time, you can just throw them in there. Cherry tomatoes, you can freeze them just the way they are. As long as you give them a wash and throw them in there. I do this when I don't have time to can them.

Farmer Fred  30:24

Right. But when you're freezing tomatoes, you just can't take a fresh juicy tomato, slice it up and put it in a bag and freeze it. Well, I guess you could. But don't you have to sort of pre- freeze it first, maybe on a cookie sheet?

Kathy Morrison  30:35

Yeah, if I mean if you want to use them individually. Yes, it's better to freeze them on a cookie sheet. I use a piece of parchment paper, put the tomatoes on that, especially for one or two slices or something and then they don't freeze into a solid mass. If you don't mind the solid mass. I've done that just as a hurried thing or they end up in a block of ice and you just defrost it and then throw it all in a stew. That works fine. But yeah, if you do want to use them individually, I definitely recommend that. That goes for anything: peppers, berries, fruit slices, anything, lay it out on a baking sheet. Like I said, I like to use parchment paper and they all freeze individually. And then you can put them in the bag, you could even vacuum seal them at that point. You could vacuum seal them if you have a vacuum sealer

Farmer Fred  31:21

I know at our house we like to put them in bags that are maybe one quart bags. That's a perfect serving for two people like that. But my wife also goes through the wonderfully aromatic process of roasting the tomatoes.

Kathy Morrison  31:34

Oh, roasted tomatoes are wonderful. That's also  another easy way to get the skins off them. I did a whole batch of roasted tomato sauce earlier, in August. They have a  wonderful flavor.

Farmer Fred  31:48

Do you need a convection oven to roast them?

Kathy Morrison  31:51

Oh, heavens, no. Just  a working oven and a bunch of pans.

Farmer Fred

More parchment paper though?

Kathy Morrison

Definitely because it comes off easier and they don't stick to the pan.

Farmer Fred  32:00

And the temperature for roasting is pretty low, isn’t it?

Kathy Morrison  32:03

Well, you can do it a couple of different ways. I tend to do it higher, I tend to do like 425 or 375, depends on how big the tomatoes are. I will go a little lower for some things like cherries, or Juliets. Again, they roast beautifully. You can also do a low and slow. It just depends on how long you want to keep that up.

Farmer Fred  32:22

Ovens go down to, 150 or 200 degrees?

Kathy Morrison  32:25

Yeah, I think 180 is my the lowest on mine, maybe 170. Those are for drying. I’ve dried them overnight at that level, which is also a wonderful thing to do. Dehydrating is wonderful. I don't have a dehydrator. So it's like trust me, the oven is gonna stay on, but you wake up to this wonderful smell.

Farmer Fred  32:45

What is the difference in timing between slow and fast as far as the roasting them in the oven?

Kathy Morrison  32:51

If  it's a big pan of slicers, I would say  35 or 40 minutes. Cherry tomatoes are about 25 minutes. You want to get them just so the skins are just starting to brown. And then they come off really easy.  Pull them off with tongs.  And then you've got this lovely mass of roasted tomatoes.

Farmer Fred  33:09

That's  when you're roasting at about 400 degrees?

Kathy Morrison  33:11

Yeah, it's about 400. My oven tends to go high. 400. Sometimes I'll knock it down. It depends on what you've got in front of you.

Farmer Fred  33:21

I know my wife, Jeanne, has mastered the art of doing two trays at the same time in the oven. But halfway through the drying process, she will rotate the pans.

Kathy Morrison  33:30

That's a great idea. That works for anything. That works for cookies, too. Because  everybody's got hotspots in their oven. so that helps a lot.

Farmer Fred  33:37

All right. Well, there you go. That's what you can do with those leftover tomatoes, maybe you got a few per plant and you want to take out a few plants. And maybe you have now a couple of cookie trays full of tomato slices that you can do something with. And certainly you can keep them and even if the tomato isn't ripe, if it starting to change color, you can take those tomatoes, put them in a cool, dark, spot. Your kitchen counter should be dark. Wait for them to ripen up a bit. On a kitchen counter, a ripened tomato doesn't really have the full color of an outdoor tomato. But if you can squeeze it, if you've got a little bit of give to it, you're ready to go.

Kathy Morrison  34:16

Absolutely. I've done that when I've had to go someplace and I know that I better get these off the plant now and let them sit out and then when we get back,  they are ready to go.

Farmer Fred  34:26

All right. We're transitioning gardens from summer into fall. We are with Kathy Morrison, Sacramento County Master Gardener. We're here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. Kathy, thanks for the good tips and I hope everybody reads “Sacramento Digs Gardening”.

Kathy Morrison  34:37

Thanks, Fred. Have a good fall.

FLASHBACK EPISODE OF THE WEEK: #231 JOE LAMP’L VEGETABLE GARDENING

Farmer Fred  34:43

The current Flashback Episode of the Week is one of our most listened-to episodes, for a good reason: it features a wide ranging discussion with nationally famous TV gardener, Joe Lamp’l, about his book, the Vegetable Gardening Book.  But we also venture into the warm season garden when he talks about his upscale tomato cages, which are built to look good and last a lifetime.

Give it a listen, episode 236, from September of 2022; “Joe Lamp’l: Vegetable Gardening.”  Find a link to it in today’s show notes, or at the podcast player of your choice. And you can find it at our home page, garden basics dot net.

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WHEN DO PESTICIDES EXPIRE?

Farmer Fred

Debbie Flower is here. We're answering your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. And we get a question from somebody, from somewhere. Come on, folks! If you're gonna send in a question, give me a name. I don't care what you call yourself. You can make up whatever name you want. If you've always wanted to be called Jimmy, great. Call yourself, Jimmy. But at least give us a little bit of accuracy as far as where you live. I don't want your street address. Maybe just the county, maybe just the town. Thank you. I'm done. Now for the question: “Hi, Farmer Fred. I learned the hard way once, about squash vine borer and had been using Bt ever since. As I understand it, Bt is a living bacterium. So my question is, how long can I reasonably expect a bottle of Bt spray to be effective? And what about the mix it yourself Bt granules? The bacterium can't live forever on a shelf or can it? The bottom line is, can I use last year's supply? Or is it time to buy more?” That’s a good question that will take us down many scenic routes. Especially when dealing with organic pesticides, that generally are living, breathing, things. Right? And Bt is a living breathing thing.

Debbie Flower  36:37

Yes, it is. It's a bacteria. Yes. And it comes in a liquid form and it comes in a powder.

Farmer Fred  36:43

How can it come into powder? How can a living thing become a powder?

Debbie Flower  36:46

Well, what do bears do in winter? Hibernate? Yes, sort of a hibernation form. It is a spore that is in a resting stage. And when you put it in a liquid, it comes back to life. It comes out of its hibernation.

Farmer Fred  37:01

All right, and I've never dealt with the powder form. I always had a bottle of Bt.

Debbie Flower  37:06

I always use the powder. Okay.

Farmer Fred  37:09

So we both have had experience with Bt. I think the first thing you need to do, anytime you buy, especially an organic pesticide like Bt, is write the date on the label when you bought it.

Debbie Flower

Excellent practice.

Farmer Fred

You may not know when it was manufactured, but at least you have a reference, as far as to how long it  is going to last. So in five years, when you reach into the back of the garden chemical closet, and there's this bottle of Bt, and you don't know when you bought it, you don't judge it by opening it and smelling it.

Debbie Flower  37:37

No, no. Bad, bad practice.

Farmer Fred  37:40

The other thing too, is when you throw away old garden chemicals, don't dig a hole and just dump it all in the hole. Don't do that.

Debbie Flower  37:47

No. My niece, who is a pharmacist, has talked about  medical chemicals. But this, I think, would apply to pesticides too. Pour the liquids into kitty litter and mix it up and then put it in the trash.

Farmer Fred

That's interesting.

Debbie Flower

The government would like you to use it, spray it out, mix it up, go to whatever crop is on the label, that it is registered to be used on, and spray it out. Because the solution to pollution is dilution.

Farmer Fred  38:17

(long pause) How long have you said that?

Debbie Flower  38:18

My father was a professor of environmental science for a long time.

Farmer Fred  38:26

The solution to pollution is dilution.

Debbie Flower  38:29

That way, it doesn't become a problem. So there should not be too much of it all in one place.

Farmer Fred  38:35

All right. And maybe your community has a pesticide pick-up day.

Debbie Flower  38:40

That’s what I do. I keep a box in the garage, underneath all the shelves. It’s for household chemicals, paints. I was going to clean the couch and they had this spray bottle of upholstery cleaner and it wouldn't work. Stuff like that. Stuff that shouldn't go in the garbage, it shouldn't go in the landfill either. Because landfills leak. Take them to your community collection of toxic chemicals.

Farmer Fred  39:04

Storing pesticides, like Bt, which is a living organism, I would think it would want to be in a cool dry place, not in the garage. So they should be stored, for example, between 40 and 85 degrees?

Debbie Flower  39:17

That sounds like a good range. You don't want it to freeze and don't want it to get too hot. It will volatilize or die if it is organic.

Farmer Fred

This is why everybody needs a root cellar.

Debbie Flower

Yeah, unfortunately, we don't have them here in California for things like that.

Farmer Fred  39:31

How long does Bt last? You look up various labels of Bt. And it varies. But I think on average, about a year and a half.

Debbie Flower  39:40

Year and a half. There's some rules of thumb about pesticide use. One is to store in a cool dry place, but ideally between 50 and 60 degrees.

Farmer Fred

Good luck finding that around here.

Debbie Flower

But 40 to 85, That's a good range, as well. That's good for plants, but you don't want it in your garage in winter or in a very hot summer. Below freezing and above 90 will definitely shorten the effectiveness of your pesticide. Liquid formulations perish before powder types. So the granule of Bt will last a little bit longer, maybe two years. And that's the rule of thumb: two years for pesticides. They are effective per the label,  for about two years and then you don't want to use them anymore. Some of them actually get stronger over time. And many get weaker over time. That's when you want to take them to your local disposal site. So when buying pesticides, buy only what you need now.

Farmer Fred  40:43

Did you say liquid formulations have a sooner expiration date than powdered forms?

Debbie Flower  40:47

In some cases? Yes.

Farmer Fred  40:49

So you have to take that into consideration too. And I'm already I'm being corrected by one Bt label that says, “store between 39 and 68 degrees.” Good luck doing that in California,  unless you live in San Francisco. “To ensure microbial purity and potency, use product within 18 months of the date of manufacture. Store container upright, and keep tightly closed when not in use. After extended storage, shake or stir contents to assure a uniform suspension.”  Hmm… whoever you are, from wherever you are, who wrote us this question, you said that you learned the hard way once about squash vine borers and have been using Bt ever since. I don't think you're killing any squash vine borers.

Debbie Flower  41:34

Right. Squash vine borers lay their eggs inside the stem of the squash vine, typically right where it comes out of the ground. So when the borers hatch and start feeding, they're feeding on the oldest tissue and the whole plant is going to go down. The Bt works only when the smallest caterpillars eat it. So I don't know how you're going to get it to the smallest caterpillar. There are people I've read about who inject it into the stem, but it's not on the label of the pesticide to do that. And the label is the law. You have to use the pesticide in the manner it is stated on the label, or you are breaking the law. It typically means that it’s not  that effective anyway.

Farmer Fred  42:22

And while we say this a lot, we'll keep saying it: read and follow all label directions. And don't assume anything about the label. Don't assume that the label, which might list many pests, that if the pest you're trying to kill is not on the label, it probably won’t work on that pest.  It'll be on the label if it will work, right? So you want to match the product to two things: the pest you're going to kill and the plant you're going to apply it to.

Debbie Flower  42:51

Yes. So both the plant and the pest have to be listed on the label. Sometimes there will be generalizations like shrubs in landscape situations. So that covers a lot of things.

Farmer Fred  42:59

My favorite is, “try it on a small area before you spray the whole plant.” Thanks for that!

Debbie Flower  43:05

So to control those squash vine borers, it's better to try to control them when they're flying in, when the parents are flying in. So, use a floating row cover when you first plant. Put the cover over the plant, secure it down so that the adult can't find the plant, and it won't lay any eggs in it. And when the plant is big enough and starts to flower, you must remove that floating row cover so that the pollinators can get to the flowers and you will get squash.

Farmer Fred  43:28

Will that plant be big and strong enough to repel a flying insect that is in the laying stage?

Debbie Flower  43:34

That’s a good question. Hopefully, the flying insect isn't around at that time of year.

Farmer Fred  43:38

Well, yeah. Good luck. But what about Spinosad? Would would Spinosad work in a situation like that?

Debbie Flower  43:48

I believe it is labeled for it. But, I don't know the directions exactly.

Farmer Fred  43:53

Read and follow all label directions. That's very important. So we've told you, sir, ma'am, whoever you are, wherever you are, that Bt lasts about 18 months. And it doesn't work on squash vine borers, right. Have a good day. All right. Thank you, Debbie.

Debbie Flower  44:09

You're welcome Fred.

Farmer Fred  44:15

The Garden Basics With Farmer Fred podcast comes out once a week, on Fridays. Plus the newsletter podcast, that comes with the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, continues, also released on Fridays. Both are free and are brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. The Garden Basics podcast is available wherever podcasts are handed out, and that includes our home page, Garden Basics dot net. , where you can also sign up for the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter and podcast. That’s Garden Basics dot net. or use the links in today’s show notes.  And thank you so much for listening.