282 The Cut & Come Again Food Garden

Show Transcript

GB 282 Cut & Come Again Garden TRANSCRIPT

Farmer Fred  0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

The healthiest foods you can grow in your garden are probably the greens: lettuce, cabbage, chard, spinach, arugula.And they are at their most nutritious when they are consumed fresh from the garden. Today, Renee Shepherd of Renee’s Garden talks about the cut and come again leafy green garden, how anyone can be enjoying fresh greens on a daily basis, no matter how small your yard, even if it is just a patio.

And if you want to make your own garden mulch from tree limbs, we have tips for purchasing a chipper/shredder - the features that it should have for a hassle-free experience.

It’s all right here, in episode number 282, The Cut and Come Again Garden.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots, and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

THE CUT AND COME AGAIN FOOD GARDEN

Farmer Fred

One of the healthiest garden plants that you can grow our greens. But if you live in a hot climate, maybe you're limited to only growing greens during the cool season. Or if you live in a cold climate, it's your summer crop. But because greens are so healthy, you should be able to grow them year round. And, you know something? You can, with the advice of our guest today. It’s Renee Shepherd, the founder of Reneesgarden.com. She is widely regarded as a pioneering innovator in introducing international vegetables, flowers, and herbs to home gardeners and gourmet restaurants. She founded the Shepherd's Garden Seeds back in 1985. And she sold the company later on, and then established Renee's Garden to do what she likes best: searching out the very best seeds from around the world, testing them in her own garden, cooking and developing recipes around their unique characteristics, and sharing them with other gardeners. I've been a Renee's customer for years and years and years. I love them, especially the Sunset Mix sweet pepper, and  Renee is the one who gave me a tip a few years ago when I was bemoaning the lack of cilantro to make salsa in the summertime. Cilantro, here in USDA zone nine, is basically a cool season crop. But you'd like to have some cilantro when you're making salsa in the summer, when the tomatoes and garlic and peppers and onions are ready. She said all you got to do is cut and come again with cilantro. Just grow it in a shady spot. Then, when it gets a couple inches tall, you cut it and use it. Isn't that right, Renee?

Renee Shepherd  3:05

That's the cut and come again method. It gives you a way to get several harvests of a lot of things that really wouldn't be able to take the heat.

Farmer Fred  3:13

Actually, I think it's perfect for anybody who wants to garden. With a cut and come garden of greens, all you probably need if you're starting it now is a shady spot to grow it in, a large container, or if you have a garden bed. But I would imagine, too, in a sunny window inside you could grow this.

Renee Shepherd  3:31

Well, I'm not 100% sure that you would have great results on a windowsill, because it needs so much more light. You might get one cutting out of it.  I suggest you grow it outside for the best result.

Farmer Fred  3:46

How about indoors with grow lights?

Renee Shepherd  3:49

indoors with grow lights? That's certainly a possibility.

Farmer Fred  3:52

All right, we've just sold some more equipment there.  But there's a lot of greens that take well to the cut and come again method. You have a YouTube video at Reneesgarden.com that explains how you do that. So go ahead and explain it for our podcast audience. How exactly do you grow leafy greens that will come back after you cut them?

Renee Shepherd  4:14

Yeah, well, we think the cut and come again method is the way to grow the most greens in the smallest space in the shortest time. So it works for all lettuce mixes. Andit  works for spinach, and chard and kale, Asian greens, a lot of different things. It's not just for hot weather, it's really a way to get a lot of results from a small space and it's a different way of growing things. So either in a bed or in a large container. You get a seed mix and you pour out the seed in your hand. You prepare the soil and then you shake the seeds through your fingers so it kind of goes in the bed like grass seeds. Don’t pack them in too thickly, but you try to spread them out, ideally, so the seeds are half an inch apart. And then you water it in. And when it gets about four to five inches tall at the most, you want to take  kitchen scissors or  snips and just cut off the top inches, leaving a one inch crown. So you want to leave a one inch crown in the ground and cut the rest. So you have  three to five inches of greens and you harvest as much as you need for a meal that day. In other words, the greens are going to come up densely. And if you wouldn't grow them to maturity because they were way too crowded and they wouldn't grow well. They would get long and lanky. But if you harvest them at the baby stage, they're young and tender and delicious. So let's say you had a garden bed that’s about a couple of feet on each side, like two or three feet across and two or three feet wide. You could grow enough mesclun mix or baby lettuce mix there to give you a lot of meals. You cut just as much as you needed. After you cut it, you fertilize again with a high nitrogen fertilizer, like fish emulsion. If you're an organic gardener, which we are, you’ll  then get a second growth. But in really hot weather, you would not get a third growth. But in the cold season, you could sometimes even get a third cutting. So it's cut and come again.

Farmer Fred  6:24

And how long does it take to produce the first crop? And then how long is it before you get a second crop?

Renee Shepherd  6:30

I would say for the first crop, you're talking 30 to 45 days. And the second crop depends on the weather. But probably another couple weeks.

Farmer Fred  6:39

Would you grow it in sun or shade?

Renee Shepherd  6:43

If it's very hot weather, I would certainly grow it where it gets afternoon shade. Or you can also cover it with shade cloth. But I'm not kind of claiming that you're going to get much of a crop if it's 100 degrees, and baking in the sun. But I have seen growers in California up in the Sonoma area, grow it under a shade cloth which is  mesh that you cover your bed with. That reduces the amount of UV going in. But generally speaking, if it's getting really warm, then you should ideally grow it where it gets morning sun and afternoon shade. In the cool season, it doesn't really matter. it'll grow just fine, I would say up till late spring. Start it as soon as the weather starts to cool down.

Farmer Fred  7:27

I really like the idea of using the shade cloth for a very different reason: to keep the pests away. To keep the aphids, the white flies, the cabbage looper moth from laying eggs on those greens.

Renee Shepherd  7:40

Well, the other nice thing about using the cut and come again, method, you're only growing something four or five inches tall. And you're growing it safely from pests, because they're not in the garden long enough. You know what I mean?

Farmer Fred  7:53

You have a lot of different mixes that you can use and I imagine that you can kind of mix and match all the various spicy greens as well as the mild greens. That would be very nice, and very colorful as well, in a salad mix or however you want to use greens.

Renee Shepherd  8:15

Let's say you want to use two containers or two places on your garden bed. Grow one with mesclun or baby leaf lettuce, which is all kind of sweet reds and greens that are either either smooth and buttery and crunchy. We make up our mixes by growing the varieties individually and then combining them so you've got not just the flavor and color, but a good mouthfeel, because you don't want all soft lettuces and you don't want all crispy lettuces. It's nice to have both. Let's say we're talking about lettuce. You grow one baby leaf lettuce mix. And next to it you can grow a spicy greens mix that has arugula and mustard and spicy things. And then you go out  to make a salad for dinner. You harvest two thirds lettuce and 1/3 spicy greens. You can tailor it to your own tastes. And you can certainly grow arugula as a cut and come again and you can grow lots of different things. Arugula is very fast growing. And frankly, it's not bitter when it's young. So you want to harvested it no more than four inches tall.

Farmer Fred  9:18

And at that height,  the plant has developed its own character. It's got that shape that you recognize. It’s  going to be very colorful, too.

Renee Shepherd  9:27

Most stores now sell mixes of baby leaf greens. Everyone knows what that is. But you can also buy baby kale, and baby arugula. All these things can be grown in the cut and come method yourself. It's much cheaper and it's really easy to do, especially for people in limited spaces. You can grow a really nice salad garden and greens gardens in containers in this fashion.

Farmer Fred  9:52

I would think, then, if  you can get maybe two or three crops out of a cut and come again for a bowl of lettuce in a portion of the garden. You'd want to have about two or three going. Maybe plant the second batch about a week or two after the first batch.

Renee Shepherd  10:08

I would say a couple of weeks. But you know, you don't have to have a big patch because it produces a big quantity of greens. So it's a good strategy for having long term salads.

Farmer Fred  10:19

I noticed in your video, when you were harvesting the greens when they're only four or five inches tall, all you did was you simply grabbed a handful of them, and then cut it one inch above the soil line beneath your hand and took that in for dinner.

Renee Shepherd  10:33

Yeah, you wrap your hand around a bunch of tops, and you cut underneath your hand leaving one end. And then you take that in for dinner that night. It's really tender and delicious when it's fresh. And here's the other thing. It's really tender and delicious. Just make a real simple vinaigrette,  like with a mild rice vinegar, or whatever kind of vinegar you like, and really good olive oil. And that's really all you need.

Farmer Fred  11:01

You know, speaking of that, you have recipe books.

Renee Shepherd  11:04

Well, that's true. We have a huge trial garden where we trial and evaluate new varieties and grow many different kinds of the same variety. So we've always come up with recipes and what to do with it. Because if we have convinced you to  grow radicchio, you're gonna need some radicchio recipes. And if you grow pole beans, and you've used up the three ways you always made beans, you might want some new ideas. So all the cookbooks I've written are all alphabetical by vegetable, so you can look up whatever you're harvesting.

Farmer Fred  11:32

And you can find those cookbooks online at Reneesgarden.com

Renee Shepherd  11:37

We’re growing lots of basil, we planted a second crop of basil, so we'll have it ripe, when more tomatoes ripen.

Farmer Fred  11:45

There you go. Yeah, basil can last quite a while, as well. I'm always amazed at parsley, because it's a biennial. And so you can get two years worth of harvest from that.

Renee Shepherd  11:58

Well, that's true. We usually plant two crops a year, we are in USDA Zone 8.  One  will overwinter. And then we plant another one. So yes. I like Italian broadleaf parsley, better than most others. It’s my favorite. It's very healthy, too, and tastes so good.

Farmer Fred  12:19

Not only that, but in its second year when parsley does start to flower, it attracts a whole host of beneficial insects.

Renee Shepherd  12:25

Yes, and that's certainly something that a lot of gardeners are really getting into, seeing their gardens as a way to create backyard habitat, and encourage pollinators and solitary bees and all kinds of beneficial insects and songbirds. Not just feeding them, but feeding nature. It's really important and something all gardeners can really do.

Farmer Fred  12:46

It behooves every gardener to build the good bug hotel.

Renee Shepherd  12:50

Well, absolutely. That just means to plant lots of wonderful annual flowers that they all can feast upon.

Farmer Fred  12:57

That's right. And a wide variety of plants, too. You want birds in your yard? They need some evergreen shrubs where they can they can hide out in.

Renee Shepherd  13:07

Yes, thinking of your garden as a habitat, and source of food and pleasure not only for you, but by everything that surrounds you in nature. It is really an important concept because I think we are the source of a lot of habitat in our suburban and city gardens, more than we know, and it’s becoming more and more important.

Farmer Fred  13:29

Anything else you want to cover in this?

Renee Shepherd  13:31

We're getting into the real end of summer. So as soon as the weather starts to cool down would be a good time to launch another round of cut and come again, it's something you can do really quickly and easily. And if you're a beginning gardener, it's a great way to get going and besides lettuces, because I mostly talk about that. But you can grow - and it really is fun to grow - baby chard and baby kale, which is really more tender than mature kale, and spinach. So there's  really quite a few greens that can be grown in this fashion.

Farmer Fred  14:05

Is green kale, in your estimation, tastier than ornamental kale?

Renee Shepherd  14:09

Oh about 1,000%. Ornamental kale was bred for ornamental purposes, mostly in Japan, originally. It really is designed to be pretty. Is it also edible? Yeah. Is it delicious? Not particularly.

Farmer Fred  14:26

We should point out that at Reneesgarden.com, you can find all sorts of seeds available, mixes available, for the container kitchen garden. So indeed if you do have a limited space to work with - maybe a sunny patio or less - there's a lot of good mixes that will work for you in containers.

Renee Shepherd  14:46

We specialize in varieties for containers. So we have container chilies and container peppers and container cucumbers and container eggplants and containers zucchini, including a really nice French variety that really does well in a container. As well as watermelons. We have lots of these container cut and come again mixes, because that's something we really look for. And our other varieties all tend to be in vegetables at least, varieties chosen for wide adaptability and great flavor, because we eat them ourselves.

Farmer Fred  15:15

You test them yourselves too.

Renee Shepherd  15:18

Yes, we have a large trial garden both here in Northern California and near Santa Cruz and also in Vermont.

Farmer Fred  15:25

Talk a little bit about the Ortalana di Faenza zucchini. And I'm sure I butchered that name.

Renee Shepherd  15:32

That is not the container variety. That is a very traditional Italian striped zucchini, characterized by a very nutty taste, just really sweet and nutty and custardy. It's a very delicious one. The French seed that we get, which is the container varieties, is called Astia (?). And then last year, we introduced the opposite, which is a climbing zucchini, which will crawl up a trellis and I really liked because then you can break off the fruits off the vine standing up. You don't have to go looking bending over and trying to find them and they don't hide. So we've got one for a zucchini for any use.

Farmer Fred  16:12

Yeah, the climbing zucchini, by the way has the obvious name of Incredible Escalator.

Renee Shepherd  16:19

Yes, it's from a German company and they just had a number for it. So they allowed me to name it, and since it moved quickly up I thought I'd name it escalator.

Farmer Fred  16:29

Well, just in my own defense, I am growing that Ortalana di Faenza zucchini in a large barrel, and it's doing just fine.

Renee Shepherd  16:37

That's one of my favorites, actually, flavor wise. And they make just beautiful fruit. And if you roast them whole, they're just wonderful  with olive oil and garlic. They're just delicious any other way you can think to enjoy them. They just have a really really excellent flavor. Container zucchini works well because it doesn't, it's non-vining. It's grows like a bush. And the zucchini are all easily pickable and  it's a very beautiful plant. It's very ornamental.

Farmer Fred  17:07

I would be remiss if I did not ask you at this time of the year, what can you do with an overgrown zucchini that you found hiding under the leaves?

Renee Shepherd  17:15

Well, I don't get them too often. Because I'm too greedy. I always go out and look, almost every other day. I am not an expert on overgrown zucchini. So I don't think  I'll have anything really new and exciting to tell you. You can cut them in half and scoop out the insides and  make a filling with the zucchini and sauteed with rice and Italian sausage and basil and then stuff the shell. Bake it topped with olive oil and a Italian kind of seasonings. That's nice.

Farmer Fred  17:55

I guess I'll just continue feeding the big ones to the worms.

Renee Shepherd  17:59

Yeah, or get a neighbor with chickens.  I would say that is the highest use of overgrown zucchini and trade them with people with chickens in return for an egg or two once in a while.

Farmer Fred  18:10

Oh, I used to trade them to the neighbors to feed their cows.

Renee Shepherd  18:12

Amen to that.

Farmer Fred  18:15

Fall is for planting, August and September is for planning, and thinking about what your family will eat. Try some new varieties as well. Don't start too big, start with a small patch if you've never grown something before, see if your family likes it and experience something new. USDA zones nine and eight and even seven can have a cool season garden, perhaps with some protection. But there's no reason why you can't be out there gardening most of the year.

Renee Shepherd  18:45

Well, I do have to tell you that I used to get invited to this one family’s Thanksgiving feast every year, and I really never saw them much, and didn't know him very well. And I couldn't figure out why they  wanted me to come to Thanksgiving. And I found out it was because of the fall garden produce I brought.  I brought a great big salad, with all those wonderful fall greens. And that's why they invited me. So obviously everybody can grow lots of delicious things for fall. It's really worth doing, and fun. And it's easier, because as the weather cools down, there's less pest problems. Plants stay well in the garden. You can have another crop of root vegetables, lots of greens. Some of the healthiest things can be grown in the cooler fall weather, and they don't take as much energy because they’re not as many weeds. It is actually the easiest time of year.

Farmer Fred  19:36

Exactly. And with your international expertise in the world of vegetables, the wide variety of bok choi, Chinese cabbages, is amazing.

Renee Shepherd  19:46

Yes, we we've had more and more Asian greens just because they're fast and easy and so healthy. We really try to look and feature things that are high nutrition. Most of all, deliciousness is our highest criteria.

Farmer Fred  19:58

There you go. So find out more at Reneesgarden.com. Noted seeds woman, Renee Shepherd, has been our guest. Renee, thanks for all the good advice about the cut and come again garden.

Renee Shepherd  20:09

Well thank you very much for talking with me. I've really enjoyed it.

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Farmer Fred

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CHIPPER/SHREDDER BASICS

(originally aired in Episode 51)

Farmer Fred

You've heard me talk about the benefits of mulch for years and years how piling up arborist tree trimmings for mulch can improve your soil you have a healthier garden, we're talking with Brad gay he owns JBS power equipment in Davis, California. What are the benefits of owning your own chipper shredder.

Brad Gay  23:44

The big, big thing if you're into gardening or if you're just starting out in gardening or whatever level of gardening you're at, the chipper shredder is going to give you a means of changing the soil quality of your garden and you're going to be able to get rid of stuff that you would maybe put in a container the city or county would pick up or you would have to haul off and you can maintain your yard and get rid of your trimmings, your limbs that have fallen down and chipping them up to a size that is used as a mulch or as a top dressing. You can end up with your tree limbs that have fallen you can have those you can chip those up you can do make your own mulch. If you're just even using them for small pots,  you can get mulch and create a good high quality mulch and I can't think of anything better to accomplish that then a chipper Shredder.

Farmer Fred 24:36

Chipper shredders are great especially if you have a lot of trees on your property and you're constantly pruning your trees. Instead of like you say instead of throwing those branches away, chop them, shred them. Just add them to the top of your soil as a four inch layer of mulch on your soil. It moderates soil temperature, it inhibits weed production. As it breaks down, it feeds the soil, making it richer. It's amazing too if you put four inches of mulch or even four inches of shredded leaves on your garden surface over the winter, and you go back in the spring you move it aside you dig down a few inches you'll be amazed at the number of earthworms that are saying thank you to you for doing that. And and earthworms improve the soil too.

Brad Gay  25:25

But that's the fun of it. I mean I've been doing my garden I've had fortunate I've been doing this for 20-25 years and I can go out I don't have weeds are one thing but I can actually go into my soil even you know after it's been watered and have had made a plant in there I can still take my hand and kind of move it into the soil because it's porous enough that because of the mulch and all the good ingredients have been added to it so amended to be able to do that it takes a while so a good chipper shredder is like is a very good startup, getting good quality soil going for you.

Farmer Fred  26:03

So let's talk about chipper shredder basics, what people should look for when buying a chipper Shredder. I would of course recommend buying it from a known entity, some company that you've heard of before, that has produced a lawn and garden equipment as opposed to going online and seeing a bunch of names you don't know. But when you're looking at the specs of a chipper shredder, what are the specs you should pay attention to?

Brad Gay 26:30

Well, the big one I look at is what's driving your chipper, what's driving the shredder apart. There's just two different entities there that are combined and one is a wheel typically that has a cutter blade. Probably about four inches long but it's very hard steel. Probably two of them on on this what I call a wheel. And then the other part is on the other side of it has a bunch of Little like edger blades that are on small half inch shaft that spin around, and they will shred leaves. But the the chipper part is very important because that reel that you have on there that's holding those blades, you want that to have some weight, because when they have that weight on there, that's what's going to pull the limb in and chop chop, chop it up. If you notice if you have somebody in your neighborhood who has been around and you'll hear that whirring sound that's going on, they have this huge flywheel this turning that that's the chipper, and it has some pretty good sized blades in there that can eat up like a nine inch limb or something like that. But you can get that same technology as a gardener for your smaller chipper Shredder. And I usually recommend about a 40 pound flywheel will be just about a good place to start. you have to look in to see if that entity exists on what you're going to buy. And you're not going to get it in your cheaper versions, like you say, you'll get something that's labeled the chipper shredder, but you're talking about things...well, I've been there. And believe me I've had things that have turned my fingernails black and blue because I'm trying to force a limb through there like I got a baseball bat hitting a steel post, it just rattles around. So you want to get something that's got a big flywheel 40 pounds plus, and it'll, it'll help suck those limbs in through with very little effort and grind up a hardwood versus the softer wood. does a great job.

Farmer Fred  28:35

What size branch diameter branch can a 40 pound flywheel handle?

Brad Gay  28:41

Well, depending on what you've got, usually I'm gonna say three inches, in some cases it's four inches, I think on bcs he can take a four inch limb on there. But what's nice is you can take a good three, four inch limb, shove it down into the chipper shredder and I usually get it from where it is to the point where that now you're having the branches which with which would have leaves or smaller limbs and then when it gets to that point, you can take it out and then pick it up and put it over into your Shredder. And then that shredder will go in take care of the rest of the stuff the smaller limbs that if there's leaves on there, it'll take care of that as well and it just turns it into a fine, finer mulch. and a good chipper shredder, it will actually have plates where that mulch exits through after it's been chipped thr