279 Fall Gardening Basics

Show Transcript

279 Fall Garden Basics TRANSCRIPT

Farmer Fred  0:00

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FALL GARDEN BASICS

Farmer Fred

Despite the triple digit temperatures of late August and early September, this is the time to be planning your fall garden, including starting the seeds of some of the healthiest, most nutritious vegetables that you can grow. America’s favorite retired college horticultural professor, Debbie Flower answers the fall garden questions of a college student who wants to try to grow a cool season garden for the first time.

And, nursery owner Don Shor talks about the best varieties of vegetables to try in your fall and winter garden. That interview was originally aired in September 2022.

It’s episode number 279, Fall Garden Basics.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots, Dave Wilson Nurseryand Heirloom Roses. Let’s go!

Farmer Fred

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. Farmer Fred here. Debbie Flower is here, America's favorite retired college horticultural professor, you are here, right?

Debbie Flower  1:37

I am here. Good. Yes.

Farmer Fred  1:38

Let's answer some questions. Marina writes, and actually she texted us from Santa Cruz, California , which is along the coast. Santa Cruz is a wonderful beachfront city with a great old wooden roller coaster. But it is an area of the coast that has many climates because the ocean front is maybe one or two miles wide before it starts to go up hill immediately.

Debbie Flower  2:04

Right. very many different microclimates as a result.

Farmer Fred  2:09

And this will all make sense to you, when I tell you what Marina is asking. She says, “This fall I will be moving into a small apartment with some college friends, and plan to start my very first food garden to provide fresh produce for the four of us. I got some free seeds from my University of California Santa Cruz Life Lab garden internship, including bok choy, lettuce, spinach, arugula and radishes. I also got two onion varieties, parsley, larkspur, and stock to plant for the spring. I will only be living in the apartment for one year. So I'm looking for advice on small area, temporary, first time gardening strategies, including soil and containers, pest control, watering and what I should and should not plant. Thank you.

Debbie Flower  2:55

She doesn't ask for much at all there.

Farmer Fred  2:58

Well Marina, you know what I really liked. The fact  it's not fall yet. And she's already thinking about fall planting, as a good gardener should.

Debbie Flower  3:06

Yes, she's planning ahead. That's wonderful.

Farmer Fred  3:09

Yeah, and especially since it doesn't make sense at all that in the heat of the summer, you're actually could be starting your fall garden. But yes, you could. In a lot of situations you might be starting seeds indoors. The nurseries don't realize it's fall until about September or so, and then they'll start getting in the cool season plants. But seeds are out there already.  And for gardeners who like to try different varieties, and especially in the world of Chinese cabbages, such as the bok choy, there are just so many varieties that are worth trying. So you're off to a good start there Marina, by doing some planning. I think at the Garden Basics podcast, you could probably find some episodes that we've talked about in the past that you would find helpful. I know episode number 12, “Your first garden” could be helpful. Also, since this is a temporary garden, I imagine you'll be doing it in containers. I didn't see that though.

Debbie Flower  4:06

She's looking for advice on that, including soil and containers.

Farmer Fred  4:13

All right. So we don't know. It might be a mix of a small plot there at the apartment and containers. So there's that. We do have a good episode that we did on containers, Episode 256 called “Container Gardening Basics” that you may want to check out. I like her selection of easy to grow crops that she has. She has a lot of root crops and greens, and those are easy to grow.

Debbie Flower  4:37

Right. And she has them separated pretty much as they should be, for the seasons. The boy choi, lettuce, spinach, arugula, radishes, onion from seed. You've done that before. Start in fall.

Farmer Fred  4:49

Yes.

Debbie Flower  4:50

Parsley. larkspur, stock. Stock is a flower as is larkspur. They will definitely do well. I would plant them now for the fall also, but they could be a spring crop as well.

Farmer Fred  5:06

And with some crops you do get them started in the fall, even though the harvest might not be until much later. For me it was today with onions that I planted last October.

Debbie Flower

And you planted them from seed. So it does take a while.

Debbie Flower  5:23

Some crops do take awhile. So she's gonna be there a year, she should be able to get a crop out of those onions. But the first thing I thought about was location. Where should she grow these edibles and flowers? Many gardens that were started by first time gardeners were in full shade. And that's not going to work for these crops. So they need to be in a place to get six to eight hours of full sun. So unobstructed sun, no shade from a tree above or from the house or anything like that. But only six to eight hours out of the 24 hours that we call one day.

Farmer Fred  6:00

My concern with it being Santa Cruz would be marine influence, where your sunlight might be limited due to morning fog.

Debbie Flower  6:09

yes. And that that will. So if you have lots of fog, you need to double those hours. If it were foggy all day long, you would want them in a sunny place as sunny as you can get for 12 to 16 hours.

Farmer Fred  6:22

You should point out that's really only for certain crops. A lot of the greens that she suggested could be grown in the shade.

Debbie Flower  6:29

True. They can produce with less sun. Actually everything - the bok choy, lettuce, spinach, arugula, radishes - everything except the flowers. Cool season flowers can take less sun, the shorter end, the six hour end, of that sun exposure.

Farmer Fred  6:46

Good. Generally root crops aren't too picky.  So being that she was an intern at the UC Santa Cruz gardening lab,  she has a good start.

Debbie Flower  6:58

She knows some things. Yeah. So that's a good thing. So besides looking at the sun conditions, the other couple of things I like to think about when I'm locating a garden: is it near water? Because you're gonna have to water these now. Not as much as we may have to in the valley here. Because Santa Cruz is a foggy place. but she's still going to need to water them. And the plants should be someplace where you can see them on a regular basis from inside the house. So that you remember, “Oh, yeah, look, they're wilting. I better get out there and water.”

Farmer Fred  7:27

In an apartment house, it might be on your way from the car to the apartment,  to remind you to get out there and do something.

Debbie Flower  7:34

Or they might be on a deck or a patio.

Farmer Fred  7:37

And if you are in container, your least expensive source of a potting soil might be the bagged soil. I wouldn't use soil from the parking lot.

Debbie Flower  7:48

Correct. For a container, you want to use what's called soilless mix, right? And you can make your own. And that might require too many inputs for somebody who's going to move quickly, because you're going to need a big bag of several things. But if you make your own, it's a one to one to one ratio which means one part of an organic component, which would be peat moss or coir or compost. Then one part of a rock component, perlite or pumice or sand. And then one part of vermiculite. Vermiculite is kind of an unique product. And for me, I like to definitely include some vermiculite. And you mix them together and that's your media, then you'll need some nutrition.

Farmer Fred  8:31

And that would not be leftover beer. It sounds like it's a college apartment house.

Debbie Flower  8:35

or close to it. Yeah. Yeah, no, no beer. You want fertilizer. If you're using peat moss, you'll have to add a little bit of lime. Garden lime, the oyster shell lime, was one type to add to the mix to adjust your pH. But fertilizer is needed only once they have germinated from seed. They don't need fertilizer to germinate. But once they're growing, they will need nutrition, they will need fertilizer.

Farmer Fred  9:00

Being that Santa Cruz is a fairly organic place, I would think manure might be readily available. But I would be very cautious about your source of that manure. And what were those animals were treated with? And what was sprayed on the pasture they ate to control weeds?

Debbie Flower  9:18

Right. Were you thinking fresh manure?

Farmer Fred  9:22

I don't know.  I was thinking that there may be a petting zoo on the campus in Santa Cruz or something along those lines. I don't think they have a petting zoo. But you never know.

Debbie Flower  9:33

But cattle, chickens, goats all have that would be something you'd have to research. They have their horses too. Their manure all has different qualities to it. And yes, you need to know what they've been eating because what they've been eating is comes out in the poop and if they've been eating stuff that has been treated with herbicides that can also come out in the poop and can ruin your garden.

Farmer Fred  9:57

Yes, especially if it's fresh manure. And I would say that if you have availability to manure, probably the best place to put it would be in a hot compost bin.

Debbie Flower  10:09

And yes, and leave it for a while till the smell goes away and it has broken down.

Farmer Fred  10:15

So Marina, if you wanted to, you could give up your parking space there at the apartment house and convert it to a three bin composting system.

Debbie Flower  10:24

Oh, there you go. I thought you're gonna say you're gonna have the manure delivered there. I had that done in my driveway. When I first had a house in Portland, Oregon. And the guy who came with it was from a dairy farm. He didn't want to drop it off because I was at work.  Because apparently that's a joke people do: order manure for someone else's house. But he did. Eventually. My neighbor convinced him I was the type of person who would want this. Yes.

Farmer Fred  10:51

You know, one nice thing, though, if you had the space there to build a raised bed would be the ease with which you could attach a translucent top made of glass polyethylene or fiberglass and have a cold frame, just in case it gets a little too cold for whatever you might be growing in the wintertime.

Debbie Flower  11:13

Yes, you could trap some heat. You know, you could do it with containers, you would have to group them together, and then use a heat blanket, which is typically sold here. I'm thinking of Santa Cruz being so close to the ocean. I don't know how readily available that would be, but it certainly would be available mail order. Yeah. And when you use a heat blanket, and it's not that heavy, not as heavy as I think of blankets being it's, it's something different, you need to spread it all over the plants and all the way to the ground, because you're trapping the heat that's coming out of the ground. Now, if this is a second story apartment, and you're on a deck, it's not going to be as helpful.

Farmer Fred  11:52

When you say heat blanket, can I say frost cloth?

Debbie Flower  11:55

Yes, you can.

Farmer Fred  11:55

Okay. Same thing. Right? So, frost cloths come in different thicknesses. And I wouldn't get the lightest, but maybe one of the thicknesses that's in between that and the thickest one. For most mild areas those are sufficient, you're just looking for two to three degrees of protection. It doesn't take much. And  you may not need them, in fact, if they are in containers, you could probably bring him inside.

Debbie Flower  12:24

if you had to. Bring them closer to the house anyway. That gives them less exposure to the coldness outside.

Farmer Fred  12:30

All right. fertilizers. Yes, for a container you would have to because if you're watering it, you're also leaching out nutrients.

Debbie Flower  12:38

So your containers are going to have holes in the bottom, they have to have drainage, and the water is going to go through and out. And when you plant into the container, you want some what's called head room. Which means that the media does not come all the way to the top of the container, you have a half inch or an inch between the top of the media and the top of the container, so that when you water, you water thoroughly, meaning you fill up that whole headroom, that space between the media and the top of the container completely, and then let it go through. And you do that maybe again, so that you're getting some water out of the container. it's called the leaching fraction, some water out of the bottom of the container. And yes, it will contain nutrients that the plant has not used. And that's a good thing, because if those unused nutrients build up in the container, it raises the media's pH or alkalinity, and it can limit the growth of the plant.

Farmer Fred  13:32

As far as fertilizers go to replenish the plants. I like single digit fertilizers. By that I mean those three numbers you see on the front of the box or the bag or the bottle of fertilizer. They should be single digits, your nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium content. Like a 5-1-1, which is typical for fish emulsion. Or a triple four or something along those lines. You would have to do it probably more regularly than you would if it was planted in the ground. I have this nagging memory in the back of my head of creating a problem in an apartment, thousands of years ago, where I was watering plants on the little outside deck of my second story apartment and didn't think twice about where the water was going. Well, it's going to leave the pot and then where is it going to go? Oh, it's going to stick around the wood of that second story deck, which eventually rotted, right? So you might have to get pretty creative when it comes to thinking about how are you going to drain the water away.

Debbie Flower  14:35

Right?

Farmer Fred  14:36

And how are you going to protect the surfaces of something you don't own?

Debbie Flower  14:39

I like to have all my containers on a rolling platform. They sell smaller ones at the garden centers. They're not cheap. You can make your own out of wood.  Skateboards would work yeah. I like to have wheels on it so I can move the plant around easily. But I also liked that it lifts  the container and the platform off of the deck or whatever it is, so air can get underneath and that will help it dry out and prevent this rotting you're talking about. And then on top of that, I like to have a dish,  to collect the water because maybe my neighbor below is sitting on their deck and I'm watering and down comes this water. And then so it could be a cache pot with no holes. A pretty pot that you put around the outside of the planted container. Maybe the cache pot doesn't have drain holes, and allows whatever comes out the bottom to collect, but then you have to empty that water out of that where it's collected in the container under your grow pot. And a turkey baster works well for that purpose.

Farmer Fred  15:43

Yeah, that's a good idea too. But you just can't take that container of water that's draining there and throw it off your balcony.

Debbie Flower  15:51

Unless you really have a strong throw and can get very far away from any humans or other structures or vehicles nearby.

Farmer Fred  16:00

Marina was a little concerned too about pest problems, she wanted some tips for pest control. Fortunately for the fall and winter garden, it's not as bad as it would be if it was the spring in the summer, you'll probably get aphids.

Debbie Flower  16:13

That's where your discussion of a single digit fertilizer comes in. If you use too strong of a concentration of nitrogen, meaning that that number is not just a single digit or you apply that single digit fertilizer too often. Nitrogen is the first number in those three that are on a fertilizer bag. If you apply it too often, you get lots of green growth, but it's young and thin, and it is aphid candy, and you get so many aphids on it.

Farmer Fred  16:39

In a container garden, you could probably get away with just removing them by hand or a hard stream of water if you have access to a hose and it's not going to make everybody all wet. You have to be kind of careful when that goes. But I was thinking in terms of building the “good bug hotel” along with the vegetable garden too. And by putting in plants that attract beneficial insects.  And so I liked the idea that she had like larkspur and stock in there. But I would add some other winter bloomers that also attract beneficial winter bloomers. And of course now we're in Santa Cruz, you know what blooms in the wintertime in Santa Cruz? Australian plants. They have a wonderful botanical garden there. They have a beautiful Australian section, which is resplendent in December and January. But for annual flowers, probably calendulas. Thinking of flat, daisy-like flowers that might attract more of the good guys that you want.

Debbie Flower  17:43

Sweet alyssum. Sweet alyssum. That's easy. It grows year round and it's attractive to the beneficials that they need. Besides eating the aphids which is their protein meal, they need some sugar, and so they need to go to a flower that's going to give them some of its of its sap,  its nectar. And that's what they get through the flower.

Farmer Fred  17:57

I like that idea. Because sweet alyssum, if it's in a big enough pot, you could ring the pot, it would include the alyssum and whatever edible plant you'd have.

Debbie Flower  18:07

So the size of the pot is going to be important. It's something that you want to be able to move physically, but you don't want it to be too small. If it's too small, then the plant will be limited and it will become a very difficult plant to manage, because the roots will quickly fill it up, and you're gonna have to water all the time and it's gonna get crowded, and it's going to suffer. I like what we call fifteens (15 gallon container). A 15 is about 18 inches tall and wide approximately. They're black plastic, and that's a problem. But other things to use would be like half wine barrels, but you do have to drill half-inch to three-quarter inch holes in the bottom. The benefit of  those barrels: they have nice oak bottoms, and you can just screw the wheels into the bottom.

Farmer Fred

If they're big enough wheels.

Debbie Flower

if they're big enough wheels, yeah.

Farmer Fred  18:51

I would suggest if you're using a half barrel, use a furniture dolly.

Debbie Flower  18:57

Yes. You said that once before. That's a great idea.

Farmer Fred  19:00

There's a lot of winter bloomers that can be planted in Santa Cruz. I mean, if you go to your local nursery, or even a big box store, you're gonna see a fine selection of winter blooming annuals, but again, they're probably not going to get them in stock until September or October. And so those places are where you can buy seed and get started right away.

Debbie Flower  19:26

The sweet alyssum is very easy from seed, it comes in colors. And so you have the big pot you have maybe a crop of chard and I don't think she mentioned chard but that's a nice green to grow in the winter. And around the edges you have, or next to the chard plant, you have some sweet alyssum.

Farmer Fred  19:46

if this is all in containers, you can safely plant mint in a few pots to to attract beneficials and it's not going to get out of control.

Debbie Flower  19:53

But don't plant it with other things in the same container. The mint will take over.

Farmer Fred  19:58

But yeah, I like that idea of sweet alyssum.  I think that's a fine entry for the mild climate good bug hotel.

Debbie Flower  20:05

And  temperature in the container is not such a problem in Santa Cruz in the winter. But if she's starting now, let's say within the next month, those black grow pots could heat up tremendously. And so that causes the media to become very hot, temperatures of 140 degrees in as little as a half an hour have been recorded. And that means you've got dead roots. Wherever that part of the pot is being hit by sun, you need to prevent that. And to prevent that media from heating up, you can do a bunch of basic things, you can wrap it in that frost cloth we were talking about if you have any leftover.

Farmer Fred  20:42

Which is also good for pest control. Yes, like keeping them from landing in the first place.

Debbie Flower  20:47

They can't get to the plant. Secure the plant with some clothespins or tape, tape it around the pot, you can put aluminum foil on the sunny side of the pot, and it will reflect the sun off, you can get some spray paint and I've done this with students and just clean the pot off with a nice rag and then spray that side that's going to be facing the sun or spray the whole thing. So you have options. And that reflects enough light that it doesn't allow the roots to get that hot.

Farmer Fred  21:11

Your favorite colors?

Debbie Flower  21:12

We used light colors, but I got silver and gold and white and pink and yellow and let them do whatever they wanted on their pot.

Farmer Fred  21:22

Okay. Did it bring down the soil temperature? Since you were teaching a class, there had to be soil thermometers involved in this?

Debbie Flower  21:28

No, there weren't, unfortunately, oh, yeah, that would have been a good check. But nothing burned.

Farmer Fred  21:35

Okay. All right. That's good. I think really, the big question though, is Marina, are your food habits the same as the people you're living with? Will it be their food habits as well? In other words, you want to plant food crops that everybody is going to enjoy.

Debbie Flower  21:49

Right. That you're actually going to eat.

Farmer Fred  21:51

You don't want to waste them. Unless you could have a worm bin inside. you could feed them the leftovers. But Marina is off to a good start here. And I think she will be successful.

Debbie Flower  22:03

I think so too. Just don't do too much, too fast.

Farmer Fred  22:06

All right, Marina. Thanks for writing in. Debbie. Thanks for your help.

Debbie Flower  22:09

Oh, I'm pleased to have helped Fred.

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BEYOND THE GARDEN BASICS NEWSLETTER/PODCAST: JAPANESE MAPLE TREE CARE TIPS

Farmer Fred

If you have a Japanese maple tree, you may notice that some of the leaves may be looking rather brown and crinkled now. Welcome to late summer, when the onslaught of heat may be causing the leaves of your Japanese maple tree to suffer. This week’s Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter and podcast is all about summertime care of Japanese maple trees, along with information about the varieties that do best in the sun and the heat.

It’s Japanese Maples versus Summer Heat.

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COOL SEASON VEG TIPS

Farmer Fred  24:14

It's cool season vegetable time for much of the country. that would be USDA zones 9-8-7 and six if you feel real, real lucky, but let's just concentrate on the warmer areas, let's say south of the Mason Dixon line, along with most of the West Coast and getting into Arizona and probably parts of Texas and Florida, Of course. So let's talk to somebody who's very familiar with cool season vegetables: nursery owner, Don Shor owns Redwood Barn Nursery in Davis (CA), and Don it's cool season vegetable time, and there's a lot to choose from and I hope people don't give up after their summer garden. Maybe they're already tired of tomatoes and squash, they've already started ripping it out. You can put in crops that will do well in the cooler weather ahead.

Don Shor  24:59

It's a funny time of year here because our summer vegetables are still going along strong, but it's a good time to get started on broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, a lot of those things that we grow and harvest in the cool season, but they need a good lead-in.

Farmer Fred  25:15

The first thing people have to do is either plant from seed or pick out the plants and one of the easier things to do is to pick out the plants. go to your favorite local independent nursery. Your local independent nursery is always a good place to shop for plants, because they're going to carry the varieties that are known to do well in your particular area. Yeah, and for instance, here in Northern California, Don, what would you have in stock now is in the way of cool season vegetables for people in Northern California.

Don Shor  25:43

We've just started bringing in broccoli, cauliflower, romanesco of the different types of cabbage, napa cabbage, regular headed cabbages, and we have the very first of the leafy greens, lettuces, spinach, and we always have swiss chard. There's things you can plant now all the way through November here in our area, and many of those are planted again in late winter, early spring, depending on where you're listening. But right now, end of August early September is really the beginning of the planting season for a lot of these things for most of The zones you talked about.

Farmer Fred  26:16

And for those who may be wondering, what the heck is Romanesco?

Don Shor  26:20

Well, that's a little controversial, but it's usually described as a type of cauliflower. But to me it looks more like broccoli. And it's  fascinating looking. Everyone should grow it once. It makes a huge plant, two to three feet across, makes an enormous head with a fractal pattern, you can look up Fibonacci patterns. This is great for those of you who are homeschooling kids right now. And it's a very tender broccoli like flowerhead that sort of resembles cauliflower and texture but broccoli and flavor.

Farmer Fred  27:06

What about the containerizing these plants? Do many of them take well to containers?

Don Shor  27:11

I do that and I use large containers. I use anything from a seven to a 15 gallon size, you want at least half a cubic foot of potting soil, a cubic foots even better because these are plants with extensive root systems and they don't want to get drought stress. It's very important with all the cole crops, things like that, but they have a good root volume. If you're limited and you have a smaller container, go with leafy greens, lettuces, spinach is you can crowd those together, harvest leaf by leaf and have them over a very long season.

Farmer Fred  27:41

What are the best selling varieties that you've worked with over the years?

Don Shor  27:45

Of the broccoli, I'm a big fan of DiCiccio, which is a known heirloom variety. I like the newer ones like green magic, which is very similar. What I suggest home gardeners look for is broccoli that is listed as re sprouting side sprouts, lots of side shoots. commercial growers want a very large head of broccoli, they want to make six inches across and they're just going to get it one and done they get one big head and that's it. You as a home gardener can plant DiCiccio or green magic or Gypsy. Some of these like that have been around for a while and am some newer hybrids, and you'll get one four inch head and immediately new side shoots come up and you can be picking those all winter. So that's really better for the home gardener.

Farmer Fred  28:24

What is the spacing for broccoli, I know on some of the older varieties like green Goliath, Green Duke and Waltham 29, they recommended planting them 10 inches apart, in 20 foot rows.

Don Shor  28:35

You can go closer with these three sprouting types. That sounds about right. I usually go about a foot apart I may crowd them the more you crowd them the smaller those initial heads will be but you'll still get good results. That really I think broccoli and its cousins broccoli Raab things like that are some of the easiest things for home gardeners to start with. Easy to grow from seed, easy to buy implants and they'll produce quickly.

Farmer Fred  28:55

Alright, so much for broccoli. Let's move through the alphabet. What's next?

Don Shor  29:00

Brussel sprouts. ever grown any, Fred?

Farmer Fred  29:05

brussels sprouts are a challenge here because even though they're a cool season crop, if you want to plant them correctly here, you have to do it in the heat of July.

Don Shor  29:13

Right. they need to go in mid summer. They In a really long start to the growing season, and you're not going to harvest until March, and I guarantee you'll be battling aphids the whole time. So I would not rush into brussels sprouts if you're a novice gardener, but it can be fun to do. But I don't know how much you like brussels sprouts, they're probably not the easiest. So maybe let's move down the alphabet to cabbage.

Farmer Fred  29:34

But let's put one more thing on Brussels sprouts. So for people in other parts of the country, maybe brussels sprouts are best treated as a spring planted crop.

Don Shor  29:43

Yeah. And they're heavily grown in the coastal areas of California. Most of the production for many years was over in the coast of the Bay Area, that long season planning them early in the spring, cool, mild climate, they'd be harvesting them over a very long period. So it's a challenging one because it takes literally about six months from plant to harvest.

Farmer Fred  30:03

Wow. All right, can we go to the letter C?

Don Shor  30:06

Now remember, these are all related and these are all basically the same plan. They are brassica oleracea. That's the botanical name of the The ancestor of all of them. And from that we got broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, kohlrabi, Brussels sprouts, kale, collards, I feel like I'm forgetting something. But they're all basically the same plant. And they like a mild climate to grow and expand and get their major initial start. And then we're harvesting different parts, we're harvesting the flower buds, we're firing the inflorescence. And in some cases, the weird stem like on the kohlrabi, what they want is to have a long period of development, and then initiate with flowering and then we eat them before they get a chance to flower.

Farmer Fred  30:53

Now I'm fond of the Chinese cabbages the bok choy and the pak choi.

Don Shor  30:57

very easy to grow, and you can crowd them. They're a really good one for folks who like stir fry, have maybe one container to crowd a bunch of things in bok choy, pac joi, there's a bunch of different names and different styles of those. You can harvest a leaf at a time or the whole thing. And again, all they want is cool, mild conditions. they're okay with Frost, light frost okay down into the mid 20s Fahrenheit. So they're pretty easy to grow in almost all the climate zones you mentioned. And in coastal areas, the places where tomatoes don't do well peppers don't do well. So let's say Seattle or Corvallis, Oregon. Those are great choices they will do very well for you pretty much year round.

Farmer Fred  31:32

cabbage varieties. I'm familiar with  Earliana, Copenhagen Market, Savoy King and the Burpee hybrid. Are there others that you like?

Don Shor  31:40

Green Acre, that's become one of the most popular because it will produce quickly. You'll look on the label you'll see some cabbages listed as 60 to 70 days others in the 90 day range, the faster ones are gonna be better for some of the listeners who are in the colder USDA zones. They get them planted now they're listening in September, and we get frost in November there'll be okay with that they can get them out of the ground before a hard freeze sets in. In our climate, those tend to head up in the air in the late winter, early spring. Here we can do all of them because we don't get that cold in the winter. But that green acre in particular is a fast producer.

Farmer Fred  32:15

Oh well, let's talk about another relative of those then, the cauliflower.

Don Shor  32:19

It's more challenging. The issue with cauliflower is that the heads are susceptible to cold damage and the cosmetic damage on the head. If it's open and we get, you know, open to the sky and we get 24 or 25 degrees, as we can do here in mid December, early January, it'll damage it. So an old technique is to pull those leaves up, crimp them over the top, and that protects the head. And with that colder weather you get a sweeter flavor. It's a little more tricky though, because they're more susceptible to slug damage, aphids and more challenging to manage that way. I would say for again, for novice gardener, broccoli is going to be a lot easier.

Farmer Fred  32:56

All right, we’ll across cauliflower off the list.  Try everything once. Yeah, one of my favorites to grow, and I won't say it's bulletproof, but if you have good deep soil, it's kind of hard to go wrong with carrots.

Don Shor  33:12

Yeah, as long as the soil drains well and you can do them Essentially any time of year as long as the moisture is consistent, so in the summer here, they can be pretty challenging just because of how hot and dry we are. But almost anywhere someone's listening unless the ground freezes over, they can do carrots right on into the winter. They can do them early in the spring even later in the spring. I suggest for areas with denser soil, they use smaller types like little fingered hand danzas haflong, try the round one orbit. Those are cool. And there's a lot of new carrots on the variety, a lot of new, new colorful ones, but I think you really can't go wrong with those first two. I mentioned little finger and Danvers half-long they develop quickly. You get three to four inch, very sweet carrots and remember the sweetness increases a little frost.

Farmer Fred  33:54

I realize you're a nursery owner, but would you buy a six pack of carrots?

Don Shor  33:59

I would sell one. I wouldn’t  buy one.

Farmer Fred  34:05

You would plant from seed.

Don Shor  34:06

Absolutely. The thing to remember though, is carrots germinate very slowly. There's an inhibitor in the seed coat. So first thing is to soak the seed overnight before you plant To try and get some of that inhibitor out of there, then it'll only take three to four weeks to germinate instead of five to six. And an old trick is to plan carrots and radishes together in the same bed and the radishes come up right away. You're harvesting them in five or six weeks, just as you're pulling them out. The carrots are beginning to sprout. So you're making maximum efficient use of your bed and you're in bed waiting and waiting and waiting for the carrots to sprout. You're getting something else out of that bed at the same time.

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COOL SEASON VEGETABLE TIPS, PART 2

Farmer Fred

Let's get back to our conversation with nursery owner Don Shor. He has more cool season vegetable garden planting tips for us. Another one of those slow to germinate ones I'm trying this year are parsnips. It could take three weeks for it to show its face above ground.

Don Shor  38:02

Anything in that family they have an inhibitor in the seed coat and a simple trick is to soak the seed overnight parsley well known for five to six weeks to germinate. Put them in a bowl, pour hot water on them, let it sit overnight, drain that off and that'll help somewhat but you're still looking three to four weeks to germination. Yeah. And all the vegetables I would recommend planting direct in the ground if you can. Yes, people like six packs.

Farmer Fred  38:27

More root crops. We're talking carrots. Talking about turnips. Parsnips?

Don Shor  38:33

Yeah, you grow them?

Farmer Fred  38:34

This is gonna be the first year I'm growing and those will you thought I said parsley I said parsnips as far as taking three weeks to germinate.

Don Shor  38:41

Yeah, they are storing a lot of starch and things. Remember with anything that stores starch is when we get cold, the starch converts to sugar, so even even the leaves of your kale, you'll get better flavor when you get some chilling on them. This is one of the reasons they're popular. Don't harvest your parsnips until Christmas.

Farmer Fred  38:58

I'll remember that okay, I'm gonna write that down.

Don Shor  39:03

Parsnips harvest at Christmas.

Farmer Fred  39:06

Xmas. Okay, got it. Now that brings up onions and garlic. Now around here we're used to planting from starts or transplants usually in October or so. The rest of the country, I'm not sure.

Don Shor  39:20

It's highly variable, hot areas in the southern part. They generally plant in the fall and they harvest in the spring as much as we do. Here. We plan to November harvest in May to June a little later for Walla Walla is and the colder tier states they plan in the spring for summer harvest. So it's going to vary and you'll have short day, long day intermediate day types. We're very lucky in the Sacramento Valley, we've got all of those we can go any kind of onion we want. Wherever you're listening locally, you should find out what the suitable varieties are for your area. Because there are generally varieties that are better for you and varieties that aren't as suitable.

Farmer Fred  39:55

I love the Stockton red onion, but they're hard to find. But when you find them, get them. They're good.

Don Shor  40:00

Good luck getting the red. Stockton yellow, Walla Walla, is a fun one to grow. We always get demand for the red torpedo. It's a little dicey here because frankly It tends to bloom honestly. And when it blooms is hollow, it does keep as well. But yeah, the stockton red are the new red burger, just an improvement on that. Onions in the Sacramento Valley arrive in November, and you plant them bare root. It's one of the easiest things in the world to do.

Farmer Fred  40:24

Yeah, they usually come bundled 50 to a bundle, you'll be happy with one bundle.

Don Shor  40:30

I get people special ordering 200 to 500 at a time. And they call and call and call I don't know what is this? These old guys and their onions, they are very concerned about them. But they want to get them in November when they can water them in, get some nitrogen on them early in the season. And then they're just as easy as can be from that point on you just harvest in the early summer, late spring.

Farmer Fred  40:52

And that's part of the beauty of living where we live in other areas of the country. It's more of a challenge. What's nice is that there are some mail order firms like Peaceful Valley they won't even mail out there garlic and onions to a zip code until it's right for that area.

Don Shor  41:07

Right. there is a big onion grower down in Texas, Dixon Dale farms. They know everything there is to know about onions and they shipped millions of them all over the country, and they tell you if they're gonna ship them to you when it's appropriate for your region.

Farmer Fred  41:22

I guess the most frost sensitive plants would be those with water in their leaves like the leafy greens.

Don Shor  41:29

Yeah, and they're easy to grow. But of course, they're a little vulnerable to temperatures in the low 20s or below. So wherever people are listening, they need to take that into consideration. On the plus side, you can plant and harvest right away, you can start picking leaves immediately, especially the leaf lettuces and spinach is and you can let them grow and form ahead and harvest the whole hand if you like. This is probably where early novice gardeners go best is with leafy greens in a barrel or some planter like that crowd a man put in 30 plants I mean, go go overboard, because you can fit them out and use them. And if something is used up, there's a space go by a plant, stick some more in or do some more seed and we're talking about lettuce, Spinach you can do those those stir fry greens like you're talking about earlier, you're going to broccoli Raab, which is used for the stem and for stir frying. And you can even put some swiss chard in there, just be aware that it's ultimately going to outgrow all the other things we talked about. So keep them trimmed and pinched and use them all winter long here in the valley in the Sacramento Valley of California. You'll be harvesting out of that barrel all the way into April. Perhaps in colder climates you hear that you're gonna hear 21-20 degrees Fahrenheit, you might want to rush out and have a salad that night.

Farmer Fred  42:41

Some of my favorite loose leaf lettuce varieties are Ruby, bibb, salad bowl, green ice, head lettuce has always been more of a challenge here in the valley, but it's easy to grow if you live in a milder climate.

Don Shor  42:52

Sure, it just it has more risk of getting problems on the interior of the head balling up and getting a rot. look for the salanova series. These are amazing. They're like bibbs style. They make a perfect little head even when they're only half grown. You can harvest them whole and they look absolutely great. They tastes wonderful. Also romaine. If some of you're listening in places where it's hotter, romaine seems to be more heat tolerant, Lola Rossa. And then an old standby for almost every region I can think of is the black seeded Simpson, which is tolerant of heat and cold. So it can take almost the whole range of the lettuce growing season.

Farmer Fred  43:27

And in the world of spinach. I've always loved the Bloomsdale long standing. And the melody hybrid.

Don Shor  43:35

Melody is in this sort of new class of spinach where there's smaller leaves that are thinner, so probably a little more vulnerable to cold, but they're tender. We like to use them in salads. The bloomsdale is cooking spinach, been around forever tough, reliable, and said to be pretty tolerant of both cold and heat. So there's a whole range of spinach now basically thick leaf types and thin leaf types.

Farmer Fred  43:56

And we touched on kale. And one thing I've learned about kale over the years, is the plain green kale has a better taste to it than the ornamental kale, which is very colorful, but kind of bitter.

Don Shor  44:10

Not really intended for eating, Fred. It's like the parsley on your plate of the restaurant, but it's a different plant that kale is incredibly popular. It has become far and away the most popular of the coolest season vegetables for most retailers. It's easy to grow. There's the Dyno kales which have the thick kind of lumpy leaves. You've got all kinds of frilly leaf types, they're all very easy to grow and they can go down to 19 or 20 degrees without much difficulty. And I'm said that labor flavor improves it gets sweeter when that happens. Yeah, they are really pretty ornamental ones and we get this question over and over through the winter. Are they edible? Sure. Does that mean palatable tasty? No. You want to eat it? I'd suggest buying lisianiada or Dino kale or something like that. red Russian, winter boar. There’s a bunch of new hybrids. There is some really cool kale on the market now.

Farmer Fred  45:02

Well, one solution around the bitterness of maybe kale or chard, or even spinach, is to do it in a stir fry. And that helps it out.

Don Shor  45:10

Anything that is bitter. This is true if you add salt .T hat masks the bitterness. So the soy sauce takes care of that in your stir fry.

Farmer Fred  45:18

Thank you. It's good to know. All right. So most people, if you're a first time gardener and you're going to start a cool season garden for the first time, if you really want success, start with transplants. Yeah, not from seed because it's a much longer process and frankly, we're running out of time here. So people are going to the nursery. What do they look for at the nursery?

Don Shor  45:41

Buy younger plants. I'm really concerned what I see overgrown, rootbound, six packs all these cole crops we just talked about. their roots are bound up the plants going to get off to a slow start. So transplanted if you have to if he's not ready to go into the garden bed, move it up to a four inch pot into some nice soil. Look for healthy green, deep green, not purple discolored ones and not super rootbound in the container. I think that's really important for these winter vegetables. And then when you take it home, what should you do with it if you don't plan on planting at that weekend, well, just this morning, I took some six packs of napa cabbage that were fully rooted in and I didn't want to put them in the ground yet. So I shifted them up into four inch pots, just so they get them off to another little stage two to four weeks of growth before they go in the ground. Keep them growing, keep them moving, don't don't let them sit around in those packs and get rootbound so go ahead and do that extra step, putting them in a reasonable quality potting soil in a four inch pot. The plants will be growing and vigorous when you put them in the ground.

Farmer Fred  46:09

And then when you take it home, what should you do with it if you don't plan on planting it that weekend?

Don Shor  46:15

Well, just this morning, I took some six packs of Napa cabbage that were fully rooted in and I didn't want to put them in the ground yet. So I shifted them up into four inch pots, just so they get them off to another little stage, two to four weeks of growth before they go in the ground. Keep them growing, keep them moving. Don't let them sit around in those packs and get root bound. so go ahead and do that extra step putting them in a reasonable quality potting soil and a four inch pot. The plants will be growing and vigorous when you put them in the ground.

Farmer Fred  46:42

I was chatting recently with Brad Gates, you know him from Wild Boar Farms. He's famous for his tomatoes, and he came up with a rather ingenious way to keep lettuce coming throughout our hot summers. Every week or so, he plants a nursery flat with lettuce seed. he takes a nursery flat, He puts a sheet of newspaper on the bottom, fills it with soil and then scatters lettuce seed or spinach seed or Swiss chard seed into the surface of the soil, keeps it watered, it pops up and within a month, they're using their scissors, cutting it off and serving it in a meal is during the wintertime. You could do that in the wintertime too, and you could do it indoors.

Don Shor  47:24

A lot of places people are listening. You could do it in a sheltered front porch, something like that. I mean look for those microclimates. We're not talking about workplaces where there's snow on the ground, but places where it's maybe in the low 20s they could be a few degrees warmer up close to the house, he's growing microgreens and that's really easy to do. You just you're clipping them and you're not you're never trying to grow them to their full potential. You're just using them as little greens. I know people who do that with cilantro just to have a steady crop of it as well. The other group of plants that we should mention for some listeners are the peas and the beans. The garden not green beans, but fava beans. These are two cool season vegetables that we grow here for different purposes. Peas Of course for shelling, stir fry, depending on the different type. The sugar snaps have just dominated the market Now for 30 years ever since they came on because you can eat them whole, then fava beans are great for building the soil even if you don't happen to eat them. So they're very popular as a cover crop. And those are both planted going into the winter in this climate. Now this is something where you're going to have to find out locally in a colder climate, perhaps USDA zone seven, six, I'm guessing those are planted in the early spring. But here we plant them for the wintertime. And we have the biggest benefit of the fava beans all through the winter suppressing weeds, building the soil, adding nitrogen, and then people harvest and eat the beans as well.

Farmer Fred  48:41

From what I've been reading about USDA zone seven, which includes parts of Arizona and New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Virginia and North Carolina. Those cool weather vegetables can usually be planted outdoors in early February.

Don Shor  48:57

Sure. And people do that here and there. It's a race against time to see whether they'll develop before we hit our first 90 degree temperatures. So we're doing the same thing, but our preferred season is planting in September, October, November for best results.

Farmer Fred  49:12

And as we've talked about in previous shows in discussing cool season vegetables. If you live in a colder climate, nothing beats a cold frame or a greenhouse. There you go. Or a root Cellar.  Exactly. Don Shor is with Redwood Barn Nursery in Davis, California. Some great cool season vegetable recommendations. Don, thank you so much.

Don Shor  49:32

Great to be here, Fred. Thanks.

FLASHBACK EPISODE OF THE WEEK: #254 PLANTS THAT ARE A SHOW FOR THE NOSE

Farmer Fred  49:37

One joy of having a garden are aromatic plants. Annuals, perennials, shrubs and trees that emanate a pleasant smell while you’re walking through the yard, especially in the afternoon and evening.  We talk with New York- based aromatherapist Amy Anthony about the power that various aromatic plants can instill in us, making us happier, calmer and braver. Originally aired last February, Episode 254 is our Flashback Episode of the Week, Give it a listen. Find a link to it in today’s show notes, or at the podcast player of your choice. And you can find it at our home page, garden basics dot net.

Farmer Fred  50:25

The Garden Basics With Farmer Fred podcast comes out once a week, on Fridays. Plus the newsletter podcast, that comes with the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, continues, also released on Fridays. Both are free and are brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. The Garden Basics podcast is available wherever podcasts are handed out, and that includes our home page, Garden Basics dot net. , where you can also sign up for the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter and podcast. That’s Garden Basics dot net. or use the links in today’s show notes.  And thank you so much for listening.