261 Multi-Budded Fruit Tree Basics

Show Transcript

GB 261 TRANSCRIPT Multi-Budded Fruit Tree Basics

Farmer Fred  0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Farmer Fred

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Multi-Budded Fruit Tree Basics (Pt. 1)

Farmer Fred

If you are unfamiliar with multi-budded fruit trees, and you have a small yard, and you want a cornucopia of tasty fruit, then a multi-budded fruit tree may be right for you. You can purchase a fruit tree with several different varieties of fruit growing on it, but there are limitations. Or, you can take up the garden craft of grafting, and splice many different varieties of fruit onto a single, compatible existing fruit tree in your yard. Here’s a hint: it has to do with that word, compatible. And timing, too. And knowing which side of the tree is better for certain varieties of fruit.  We talk with Phil Pursel of Dave Wilson Nursery, and we tackle a fruit tree question from a listener from Ohio who wants to know: is it better to buy a multi-budded fruit tree, or can I do it myself? And how do you graft branches onto a fruit tree?

That last question is better answered by watching a video (for which we have suggestions) or reading a book about fruit tree grafting (and again, we have suggestions). Still, that does not stop up from trying to explain grafting techniques on a podcast. For that we have Master Gardener Vickie Marie Parker Ward to go over some of the how-to basics of fruit tree grafting.

It’s all in today’s episode 261, Multi-Budded Fruit Tree Basics. We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

Farmer Fred

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics Podcast. There are a lot of ways you can get your questions in. One of my favorite ways is SpeakPipe. Go to speapipe.com/gardenbasics, and then just yell at your computer. And I'll get the question. It's amazing. It's magic. It's the 21st century. You can also send an email to Fred at farmerfred.com. That works too. But SpeakPipe is a popular way to go without incurring telephone charges. It was used recently by a listener named Nikki back in Columbus, Ohio. And here's what she had to say:

Nikki in Ohio  2:47

“Hi Fred. My name is Nikki and I live in Ohio, USDA Zone 6-A. I was hoping you could answer some questions I have about grafted fruit trees. When I was doing some research about fruit trees that work well in my area, I noticed that a lot of options are grafted once, so you can have three or four different types of fruit on one tree, which seems appealing when you only really have that much space for about one or two trees in your backyard. A couple of questions about that: Should I buy  a pre-grafted one? Or should I do it myself? If I do do it myself, how young do the cuttings need to be in order to grow properly? And then if I do it myself, are there any techniques I should be wary of that might not work well in my area, since it is hot and humid? Thank you so much for listening. And I look forward to your response.”

Farmer Fred  3:40

Well, it's a fruit tree grafting question. So for that, we turn to fruit tree grafting expert Phil Pursel from Dave Wilson Nursery. Phil, yeah, grafting is an art. It's a science, it takes a lot of practice. And for that reason I usually advise beginners to just go buy a multi-grafted tree.

Phil Pursel  4:01

Yeah,  that is by far the best way of getting multiple grafts onto your tree. Just go ahead and buy one that you know has already been done by the professionals. Everything's done for you. The rootstock is there. The budding varieties are there when you pick up the tree. You can just plant it and let it grow. Start enjoying it. What a lot of people don't realize, though, is that grafting is all about timing, timing and timing. At Dave Wilson nursery we graft two times a year. One is right now, going into April. We do what we call our June bud grafts on already established rootstock in the ground. About when the weather warms up in April into May, the bark on the rootstock starts to slip. At that point, we're able to go out and use some dormant wood, the scion wood, that we have kept in cold storage. And we do what's known as chip budding. Once things start warming up past about May, no grafting will take place. You don't get a good knit on it until the fall. And that's the second time that we graft. And then at that time, we're using fresh wood, cutting from our mother stock of scion wood to basically do the same chip budding. But it's all about timing. If you don't get the timing right, your bud and your graft will not take.

Farmer Fred  5:41

I have been a victim of that many times. Because here in California, there's a group called the California Rare Fruit Growers. And they hold, every January, scion exchanges throughout the state. A scion, of course, is that fruiting wood, the piece of wood that's going to produce that desirable piece of fruit. And people come to these exchanges with basically sticks in hand, trading it for others. They might trade some apples for some peaches or something like that. The mistake a lot of people make is, after they leave that January event, they go home and they try grafting. And it ain't gonna take, because it's too darn cold. I guess you have to put those cuttings, like you do, at Dave Wilson nursery, put them into cold storage for a few months.

Phil Pursel  6:23

Exactly. What's very unfortunate is that after they do the grafting process, they wait and wait. And wait. So now you're onto one month, two months, three months until you realize the graft didn't take. And that kind of goes back to Nikki's question: should she go ahead and try to do the grafting herself, or  go out and buy a tree that already has the varieties. Those trees that are one to three years on the tree, they’re ready to go. Or you can spend your time trying to find the grafting wood, do the grafting yourself, and wait and wait to see if it actually takes and holds like a multi-budded tree. What if only one or two graphs take now you have a misshapen tree right from the get-go.

Farmer Fred  7:09

Again, it’s much easier to go to the nursery and buy a pre grafted tree. But if you're going to do it yourself, I would think that whatever you're grafting on to, it has to be compatible with the root stock. What are the limitations in that regard?

Phil Pursel  7:23

What a lot of people think is, “I have a peach tree out there but I want to go ahead and maybe I'll experiment with some some apples. I know my neighbor has some apples varieties I don't have. So I'll go ahead and try to grafted onto my peach tree. It doesn't work that way. You have to graft onto a tree that is  in the same family. So apples need to be grafted on to apple rootstock. Pears need to be grafted on pear rootstock. Cherries need to be grafted on the cherry rootstock. Now, where you kind of can get a little bit of flexibility is peaches and nectarines, they're a little bit more interchangeable. We have a rootstock called Citation. And Citation is actually a hybrid between a peach, nectarine, and plum. So with that rootstock, you can do a plum, an apricot; you can do a peach or nectarine. But mostly, it's got to be like the variety that you graft onto. So you have to make sure you have the proper root stock for the scion that you're going to put on there.

Farmer Fred  8:33

Now I know that some fruit trees, especially citrus, especially the Meyer lemon, you can take a cutting and stick that in the ground and it'll grow up to be a healthy tree. But that isn't necessarily true with much in the way of deciduous fruit trees, is it?

Phil Pursel  8:50

No it's not. The rootstock actually on a tree has serves two purposes. The rootstock is for the size of the tree. There's gonna be a standard, tall growing rootstock or more of a semi-dwarf tree rootstock; and, the rootstock is grown for its soil adapability. Over the years, scientists and botanists developed certain varieties that are only used for rootstocks for apples, for example.  And then you graft on to that. So if you're just to try and take a cutting from a peach and plant it, it's not going to necessarily produce a tasty fruit. Now, there are certain things that you can take cuttings from, that will root up. Figs, for example, root out relatively easily. Pomegranates are another one. You can just go ahead and take cuttings and root them out. But for most of your deciduous stone fruit or pome fruit, the only success you're going to have is if you grafted on to a known rootstock whose purpose is to be grafted onto.

Farmer Fred  9:53

You know, in all my years shopping at a nursery, I don't think I can ever recall seeing a sale on rootstock.

Phil Pursel  9:59

We don't sell them. All the rootstock that we grow and propagate ourselves, is just for ourselves. You just can't go out and buy root stock, because it's only purpose is to be a root stock.

Farmer Fred  10:16

I would be also wary of grafting on a tree that you don't know what the root stock is, it may have not been the right root stock for your area or soil to begin with. And maybe that's why that existing tree is in decline. And you think you can save that tree by grafting something else on there. But the fact of the matter is, if that rootstock can't take wet soils for example, or can't take a drought, or doesn't like clay soils, you're probably going to have the same results: Not good.

Phil Pursel  10:49

Exactly. If you go on to the internet now, there's so much information on the different rootstocks that  are available. You can really educate yourself on what would do well in your area. Because every area is different, every soil type, even the soil at a next door neighbor might have a different composition. So if you know what your soil is like, then you can do a little bit of research and understand the gamut of rootstocks that might work for you. Then you can go online, and there are people online, there are internet dealers, that will sell rootstock. But it's going to be very limited. You're going to have to understand that part of it.

SMART POTS!

Farmer Fred  11:40

I’ve told you about Smart Pots, the Original, award-winning fabric planters. They’re sold worldwide.  Smart Pots are proudly made 100% in the USA. They’re BPA Free and Lead-Free, making them safe for growing vegetables and other edibles.

The folks at Smart Pots have added a new product to their lineup, perfect for building the healthiest soil imaginable for your garden: by composting. It’s the Smart

Pot Compost Sak, a large, 100-gallon fabric bag that is lightweight yet extremely durable and lasts for years, and can hold 12 cubic feet of pure compost. This rugged fabric is entirely porous, containing many micropores that allow for air circulation and drainage. The fitted cover is a flexible plastic top designed to increase heat and help manage moisture in the mix, accelerating the composting process.

It’s easy to start a compost pile with the Smart Pot Compost Sak. Just open the Sak, set it on level ground, and start adding your compostable materials: grass clippings, vegetable peelings, coffee grounds and more, as well as fallen leaves, straw, and shredded paper. Next, place the optional cover over the Sak. That’s all there is to it.

Smart Pots are available at independent garden centers and select Ace and True Value hardware stores nationwide. You can find the location nearest you at their website.

And you can buy it online from Smart Pots!  Just Visit smart pots dot com slash fred. And don’t forget that slash Fred part. On that page are details about how, for a limited time, you can get 10 percent off your Smart Pot order by using the coupon code, fred. f-r-e-d, at checkout from the Smart Pot Store.

Visit smartpots.com slash fred for more information about the complete line of Smart pots lightweight, colorful, award winning fabric containers and their new Compost Sak.  And don’t forget that special Farmer Fred 10 percent discount. Smart Pots - the original, award winning fabric planter. Go to smart pots dot com slash fred.

Multi-Budded Fruit Tree Basics, Part 2

Farmer Fred

Let's get back to our conversation with Phil Pursel from Dave Wilson Nursery about multi budded fruit tree basics. If you want more information about the types of grafting to use, very specific information with pictures or better yet, moving pictures, I would suggest you go to the Dave Wilson Mursery YouTube channel and look up their videos that they have about grafting fruit trees. There are several of them, many with Tom Spellman, that will give you step by step instructions on the various types of grafting to use based on whatever you have. And so you can learn a lot from that. And like I say, those moving pictures make it a lot easier to understand than trying to describe it on a podcast. Nikki did ask the question, how young do the cuttings have to be? Well, that's an interesting question. I think what you're really trying to match up, is the size of the wood, one to the other, the scion to the rootstock.

Phil Pursel  14:35

It is if you're going to do like a top working wedge graft. That's absolutely true.

Farmer Fred  14:41

If you would like a book on the subject, one of my favorite books is from the American Horticultural Society and written by Alan Toogood. It's called Plant Propagation. It is an excellent reference, with even more information about grafting… if you really want to get into the science of cutting your fingers. Nikki also did ask the question, “Are there any grafting techniques to be wary of? Because of the weather in Columbus, Ohio,  in the summertime, can be hot and humid.”

Phil Pursel  15:04

Once again, it's all about timing. And like we said, in a place like Columbus, they would probably start their grafting a little bit later than out here in California. If you're going to do chip budding, like we do at the nursery, the understock, the rootstock, when they peel back the bark, when they make a T-cut, the bark should peel off relatively easy. It should peel back so that you can slip that little chip in there. My guess is in Columbus, the starting time might be maybe the end of April at the soonest, and into May. But you do run into problems with the humidity. Anytime you make  a cut on a tree, if you start running into humidity problems, that's where you can get fungal or bacterial growth that can really inhibit the actual bud from being viable.

Farmer Fred  16:04

For those of you playing at home with your Farmer Fred bingo card, you can cover up the square that says “all gardening is local”, because I'm gonna say it again: all gardening is local. And for Nikki in Columbus, she should probably check with the local nursery people there. They can give her a better idea about the timing of when to do it.

Phil Pursel  16:20

Yeah, absolutely. You know, when in doubt, I always tell people go talk to your local ag advisor. Most counties have them, most states have them. And they're there to help the homeowners answer questions that are really specific for their locale.

Farmer Fred  16:39

Yes, grafting can be done. I would go the insurance route, I would buy a pre-grafted tree, and then try it at home on something that won't break your heart if  it doesn't work out. But it's worth doing. It can be a fun hobby.

Phil Pursel  16:53

Yeah, that's really good advice. If your graft doesn't take for quite a while, you could have just gone ahead and planted that multi budded tree that you've got in the spring from your local garden center. You're going to be one year ahead of fruit production if you would have tried your own grafting.

Farmer Fred  17:19

I would think though, you have to keep an eye on any multi-grafted tree that you purchase. And be sure that there isn't one variety that's taking over. There are, on the market, trees called “fruit salad trees” that contain a variety of different fruits that are compatible on the same tree. Phil, give us an example of what Dave Wilson Nursery would sell in that regard.

Phil Pursel  17:42

So on our multi grafted trees, we do several different apples on one tree, or cherries, or pears.  But we do, like you mentioned, the fruit salad tree. And that's really kind of a fun, novelty tree. On our fruit salad tree we put a Santa Rosa plum, a variety of apricot, and then peaches and a nectarine. And we kind of go back to what I've mentioned before, where you have to make sure that you have the right rootstock that's compatible for the plant. All the fruit on the fruit salad tree in the Genus, Prunus. So that's why you can go ahead and do different varieties on the one rootstock. The one definite knock on the fruit salad trees is that you can very easily get one or two varieties that are very precocious, and grow a lot faster than the other varieties. And what will happen is that it will start shading out the weaker varieties. The precocious ones that grow so fast commonly on a fruit salad tree, is going to be your plum or your apricot. They just tend to grow faster than peaches and nectarines. So, if it was me, what I would do is when I was planting a fruit salad tree , I would cut back the plum and the apricot branches on that substantially, and have those branches facing kind of north or east. And then you have your peaches and nectarines facing the south and the west. That gives more sun exposure to the peach and nectarine, giving them a head start so that the the plum or the apricot doesn't take over.

Farmer Fred  19:27

Well that's a great tip, too, to help slow down the speedier kids on the block.

Phil Pursel  19:33

Yeah, but sometimes you'll see this also in multi budded apple trees. There's certain varieties of apples on the combination apple, that just by nature, they're a little bit more aggressive growing. If you plant a multi budded apple, make sure that  one branch, that one variety, that really wants to start taking over, just keep on cutting it back, and allowing everything else to balance out the tree. Three or four years down the line, you'll still have three or four varieties on that tree and not just a single variety tree.

Farmer Fred  20:09

Well, that's also a good warning for people who normally prune their own trees: don't get too carried away when pruning on multi grafted trees, because you might accidentally take off an entire fruiting variety.

Phil Pursel  20:23

I've done that myself.

Farmer Fred  20:25

Haven't we all? Yes. So be wary at pruning time. I always like to keep, just in case, the Dave Wilson varieties tags, the original tags, that came on a 4 in 1 tree on that tree, and also write it down indoors. Include which way each of those different fruit branches are facing. So, if you lose the tag, at least you’ll know what kind of fruit it is that’s growing on the west-facing side, for example.

Phil Pursel  20:51

Yeah. That's a good tip. Because inevitably, the tags, over the years, they disappear. A lot of times people will call and say, “Hey, do you know what variety was on this 4 in 1?” I can tell them what varieties were on it originally. But by then everything is starting to grow. Unless they let me know what the fruit looks like. I just have to guess because I'm not sure how they planted it in their yard.

Farmer Fred  21:16

And that brings up more of Nikki’s questions that she sent us after submitting the audio question via SpeakPipe. She wrote me back and gave a little bit more clarification about where she's going to be planting these grafted fruit trees in her yard. She says, “I live on top of what I think is a bog. Water collects during the wet seasons. At my neighbors, two doors down, there's enough water there that ducks have landed and are calling it their home, as it looks a bit more like a pond. This keeps our lawn very wet and muddy, due to its claylike nature.” Well, that brings up a very good question, then. What fruit trees can take wet feet? Is there any fruit tree that can take wet feet?

Phil Pursel  22:01

In a case like that, I would highly try to dissuade the homeowner  if they know that their area is not well draining. And if water sits in the area, I would not suggest planning directly into the ground without doing a lot of soil amendments, or at least doing mounding of soil for a tree. Or even better, put them in planter box so that from the get-go, you are elevating the roots out of the wet zone, and then allowing it to naturally go ahead and root to the soil as much as it is able. At least at that point, you're gonna get drainage. This is kind of a common thing. Here in California’s Central Valley, if a farmer knows that their acreage is not really well drained, even with almond trees, they will plant them on mounds. They come in with a tractor, they'll go ahead and mound their farms to make sure that when they plant that tree, it gets off to a good start. It'll adapt to your wet soil. But if you plant it straight into the wet soil, that's when you really run into issues. If people have an area that is wet, we kind of go back to when I said the rootstock has two purposes. One is size control of the tree, how big it's gonna get. And the other one is soil add adaptability. So if you actually go onto our website (DaveWilson.com), we have a listing of all the different rootstocks that we use. And we'll make mention if it's good for areas that tend to be a little bit more wet. So for example, apples. The most common rootstock we use is M-111. And that's your standard California semi dwarf apple. That one does relatively well, in fairly wet soils. Cherries, you would make sure that your cherry trees are on Maxima rootstock, if it's a semi dwarf; or Mazzard which most cherries are on. Standard cherry varieties are put on to Mazard rootstock. That rootstock can withstand  more moisture than others. Another is Citation rootstock, which is a hybrid, and we do peaches, nectarine, apricot, plums, pluots, apriums. That does really well in wet soils. So that being said, wet soils are not soggy soils. That's a complete different animal where really nothing does well.

Farmer Fred  24:53

If you have ducks living on your property, you have wet soil.

Phil Pursel  24:58

Exactly, yes.

Farmer Fred  25:00

Yeah, plant roots need air too. I've always planted my cherries on the high side, either in raised beds, or in the higher parts of the property, because I've always heard that cherries can't take wet feet.

Phil Pursel  25:11

They really can't. We have Mazzard rootstock, which can take wetter soils. But again, wetter soils is not wet feet. And a lot of people don't quite understand that. I mean, if you dig down 12 inches, 18 inches, and you fill your hole with water, and if it doesn't drain, make sure that when you plant a tree, that you put it into a raised bed or a planter bed.

Beyond The Garden Basics Newsletter/Podcast

Farmer Fred  25:44

Eric in Montana left us a note on the Get Growing with Farmer Fred Facebook page. He wrote: “Followed your guidance for tomatoes last summer (in Montana, it’s challenging), and ended up with over 150 lbs of tomatoes! That is the first time I successfully sowed tomato seeds and had productive plants, most of what I learned, was from your show. Thank you!” Thank you for the comment, Eric.

Way back in Episode 93, America’s Favorite Retired Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, gave beginning tomato gardeners some tips for planting tomatoes to speed up their development.

And more recently in Episode 259, experienced tomato gardeners learned from nurseryman and tomato aficionado Don Shor a better way to give your tomatoes a boost BEFORE you plant them in the ground. After he offered up that tip, I had to try it. And sure enough, the size of my little tomato plants nearly doubled in less than a week. And again, this happened before I planted that tomato in the ground. What did I do? What are the benefits of his tip, besides quickly getting a bigger tomato plant? What exactly was Don’s recommendation?

We have Debbie and Don’s tomato growing hints and tips in today’s Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter/podcast.

For current newsletter subscribers, look for the issue entitled, “Tomato Growing Tips for 2023”. If you are already a subscriber, it’s probably in your email, waiting for you now.  Or, you can start a free subscription or read it online, it’s free! Find the link to the newsletter in today’s show notes or sign up at the newsletter link at our homepage, gardenbasics dot net.

Multi-Budded Fruit Tree Basics, Part 3

Farmer Fred

Let's get back to our conversation with Phil Pursel from Dave Wilson Nursery about multi budded fruit tree basics.

Farmer Fred  28:02

What should the dimensions be of a raised bed for a single fruit tree that the gardener plans to maintain at a height of six to seven feet?

Phil Pursel  28:11

Ideally,  get that raised bed into the height range of 12 to 16 inches. That will give the tree a great start.

Farmer Fred  28:22

What about the length and width of that raised bed?

Phil Pursel  28:25

I always tell people get it up. And then get it out to about three feet or four feet. The more you can do the better. I understand people have area constraints. Or it's just a lot of work to do this. So, when you think you've had enough. Just try to do a little bit more. There's no downside to it.

Farmer Fred  28:50

Yeah, basically, the fruit trees that I've grown in raised beds, most of those raised beds are usually three feet by three feet and maybe 12 to 16 inches tall. And I've been successful doing it that way.

Phil Pursel  29:03

Yeah, that's ideal.

Farmer Fred  29:05

Some advice for anybody thinking of planting something they haven't planted before, be it fruit trees or whatever. Know your soil. If you know that you have hard soil, maybe it's clay soil, maybe there is a hard pan layer below. Go ahead, dig a hole, maybe 10-12 inches deep and wide. Fill it full of water. How long does it take for that water to drain from the hole? If it takes more than 24 hours, you may want to think about planting someplace else, or building a raised bed or somehow improving the drainage from that area on your property. The other thing to think about. If you're thinking of planting something that you've never planted before, take a long walk through your neighborhood. See what's growing there. You may be surprised what some people are growing and also note how they're growing it. Are they growing it in a raised area? Are they growing it in the higher part of their land? Or, in the lower part of their land? And how's it doing? How much sun is it getting? Take a walk, take a look. And you just might be surprised about what you might find.

Phil Pursel  30:11

You can get a lot of information off of our website, Davewilson.com. And we'll tell you what the zones are for a certain type of fruit. Everyone thinks certain varieties are just not for them, that those will only do grow in California. But once you start trialing some of these varieties, you'll realize there are a lot of different varieties that you could do in the Midwest and back East. It's just people haven't done them in the past. It takes a little bit of ground movement, trying to get some of these new varieties, especially some of the new Dave Wilson varieties, into these areas. We know that those trees can do well in colder climates. But there are a lot of internet suppliers that will go ahead and get you more unique varieties that are out there that you can trial, so that you can get a little bit more of a “farmer’s market feel” in your backyard, than maybe your neighbors might have.

Farmer Fred  31:11

Nikki mentioned in the letter that she wrote that she has a rather small yard, just like many suburban homes are, but she was going to keep her fruit trees at six to seven feet tall. Backyard orchard culture, that's a great idea for growing fruit trees. How far apart can you space fruit trees that are only getting six or seven feet tall and wide?

Phil Pursel  31:31

We've experimented at Dave Wilson Nursery anywhere from two feet apart to much further. In my own personal backyard orchard, my trees are spaced six feet apart. And I keep them at a maximum of seven, seven and a half feet tall. And even at six feet tall and wide, that still allows me to maneuver around each tree so I can do spraying and my pruning, and it still gives me a nice high density orchard. That way, I can get a lot of different varieties in a relatively small area. I'm looking at Nikki’s relatively small backyard in Columbus, Ohio. She sent pictures.  That would be considered an expansive, huge lot in California now, because we have small, small backyards. Oh my, I don't even want to know what a big backyard in the Midwest looks like, because this is huge compared to what we're used to out here, which are postage stamp sized backyards. That's why our multibudded fruit trees are so popular here, because most California New backyards now have room for maybe one tree.

Farmer Fred  32:45

Yeah, Midwest backyards are big. One of Nikki’s concerns, and it's a valid concern, despite the size of her yard, are the utility lines that are running through her backyard. She mentioned the gas line, the cable line, the water line. Yeah, you have to take all that into consideration before you start digging. Mark those lines.

Phil Pursel  33:07

The other thing I am looking at with her backyard, a lot of people don't take this into consideration, is that she has about five or six mature shade trees there. Deciduous fruit trees need as much sun as possible. And not knowing how the shade trees are situated, whether it's north or south, that's something to take into consideration when you're planning an orchard. Even though you think you have room, but if that's an area that is shady, you're probably not goi