258 10 More Garden Quick Tips

Show Transcript

GB 258 TRANSCRIPT Ten More Quick Garden Tips Mar. 24, 2023

Farmer Fred

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

Last September, in Episode 226, we presented 10 of the best quick tips for a successful garden. But there’s plenty where that came from. In this episode, 10 More Garden Quick Tips, we talk about:

• Creating a container garden that would be sure to slow down cars and wowing the walkers going by your front yard, using only three plants, that you could do now, in March or April. (at 3:02 of the podcast)

• Is there a cheaper way to make seed starting mix. Brad Gates, he of Wild Boar Farms tomato fame, says, yes there is. (6:26)

• Do you raise chickens? How do you store the eggs? Where do you store the eggs? What precautions should you take after bring those eggs indoors? Good tips from urban chicken consultant and certified poultry inspector Cherie-Sintes Glover. (8:59)

• Taking pictures of bugs you find in the garden can be a difficult task. Retired entomologist, master rosarian and ace photographer Baldo Villegas has some easy to follow advice to help you create a shot of a bug that makes it easier to identify. (17:09)

• Small apples are all the rage, perfect for putting in a lunchbox. But what’s a good one to grow? Tom Spellman of Dave Wilson has some ideas on that. (26:37)

• Master Garden Pam Bone is in love with a certain peach variety. And you could be growing one, too. (29:19)

• Thinking you’re going to chase away turkeys or deer or skunks or rats or ants or just about any other pest form your yard, house or garden by using sound devices, shiny devices or an impulse sprinkler? Debbie Flower says, think again. (33:21)

• The Brown Thumb Mama, Pam Farley works her magic on a strawberry plant by turning one plant, into many. And it’s easy. She will explain. (40:27)

• Canadian garden writer Robert Pavlis shares his secrets for creating a successful garden by implementing the cut and drop method. He has the details. (43:46)

• And finally, I’d like you to try to grow popcorn this spring and summer. I think you will like the results. I know you will like the taste.  I’ll take you, step by step, through the process of growing popcorn. (51:46)

It’s all in today’s episode 258, 10 More Tip Garden Tips. We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

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Quick Tip - Spill, Chill, Thrill : Creating a Show-Stopper Plant Display

Farmer Fred

Leading off these 10 Quick Tips is something you could do now, during the early part of spring: create some curb appeal with widely available cool season flowering plants that will look especially great for two or more months. Nursery owner Julia Oldfield has some ideas for creating a three-plant combination, a Spiller, Chiller, Thriller floral display that will slow any passerby down to take a look. This was originally aired back in Episode 47 in the Garden Basics Podcast.

Farmer Fred

If you want to add some pop to your garden this fall, especially in USDA Zones 7 through 9, how about doing a little “spiller, chiller, thriller” display. What is that all about? Julia Oldfield has the answer. She owns Big Oak Nursery in Elk Grove, California. Julia, what exactly is a spiller, chiller, thriller arrangement?

Julia Oldfield

Well, I'm glad you asked Farmer Fred. Because fall is a great time to add some pops of color around in your yard. As your trees are turning red and your leaves are falling and things are going dormant. It's a great time to add maybe a pot on your patio or even a flowerbed that can be arranged this way. “Filler” is something that would hang over the side of the pot or trail along the ground. We like to use new...well,  it's not new anymore, but it's something that not a lot of people know about. They call them “Cool Wave” pansies. If you know what a “Wave Petunia” is, they are these giant petunias that will hang over the side of your pot. And they've developed pansies that will also trail the same way, so it'll hang over the side of your pot. Then you have your “chiller” which just sits in the center and its primary job is to fill the pot up in the middle and just chill and sit there and be beautiful. We like to use ornamental kale. They come in shades of purple, pink, and white. You can even add some calendulas, in orange and yellow. Those are good fall colors. The orange calendula with the purple kale is absolutely stunning together. Finally, you'll have your “thriller” which is the plant in the center that sticks out of the pot and just pretty much waves at your neighbors, because it's so beautiful and so tall. We like to use the taller Snapdragons. They will just bloom and bloom. And they come in all the different colors, so you can really get a mixture of colors or your favorite colors together. And it just really fills in your pot and  makes your pot look full and absolutely stunning. You can do it in your flowerbed too. You can have the trailing pansies in the front and then a medium plant like a calendula. And then in the back, you have your tall snapdragons. And that way anyone driving by can see the three layers, because you have them arranged by height.

Farmer Fred

What a great display of color for the gray days of Fall. A spiller chiller thriller of cool season plants. The cool wave pansy in the front trailing over the pot or in the front of the garden. The chiller, which has standout color that lasts a long time such as the ornamental kale and the calendula. And then that big plant in the back or in the middle of the pot, the thriller, such as those snapdragons that can get 24 to 36 inches tall. Julia Oldfield thanks for explaining spiller, chiller, thriller for us.

Julia Oldfield

You're welcome Farmer Fred.

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Quick Tip: Brad Gates/Wild Boar Farm Tomato Seed Starting Soil and planting tips

Farmer Fred

Many of us are in a tomato frame of mind right now. We can’t wait to get started. Brad Gates, owner of tomato seed company Wild Boar Farms, has some quick tips on planting and a less expensive alternative for a tomato seed starting soil mix. From Episode 79.

Farmer Fred

If you're in tomato planting mode, maybe you're starting seeds, maybe you're transplanting tomato plants into the garden, how deep should you plant them and is there a substitute for a very expensive seed starting mix. Brad Gates and Wild Boar Farms has some suggestions.

Farmer Fred

Frankly, for the home gardener who's transplanting little tomato plants into slightly bigger containers, you could just use a good quality potting mix from your favorite nursery.

Brad Gates

Yeah, that's when I'd use regular potting mix. That's what I would do. You can top off the trays and if anything is bigger than say your pinky fingernail, pick it off the top. You can also run them through like a quarter inch screen just regular high quality potting mix, just screen it at a quarter inch and it makes perfect seed starting mix.

Farmer Fred

Excellent tip. And of course as the tomatoes grow in that three and a half inch pot, they can get kind of lanky, too, but if you give them full sun like what you have here in this greenhouse, they will tend to be fairly upright but do you find you have to prune them?

Brad Gates

No. If you give them plenty of light and that's why I like the cool nighttime and then not too hot during the day and that will make them a little bit stockier. Sometimes when you mass plant like you're saying, put even up to 10 seeds or more in a small cup and plant them they can fight for the light a little bit so they can get lanky. The good things with tomato plants is you can always bury the plant and a bunch of the stem and it will readjust itself so to speak.

Farmer Fred

Yeah, just like if you bought a tomato plant at a nursery if somebody bought one of yours at a nursery and decided to transplant it into the yard like they should, they would want to plant it deeper than where it was planted in the pot at the nursery.

Brad Gates

Yeah, my general rule of thumb is plant about 20 to 30% of the plant, no matter how big it is, if it was a little seedling when I transplant, I'll plant them about 20 or 30% of the stem underneath the soil. Once I get a nice transplant that's ready for the garden. Same thing I'll trim off any leaves or suckers that are below where I'm going to plant and then I'll bury about 20 or 30% of the stem that keeps the potting mix it's planted in from drying out that keeps when the wind in the spring is blowing your plants around. It makes it little further down in the soil so it can handle the wind and it will also regenerate roots on the stem where it comes in contact with the moist soil.

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Quick Tips for Washing, Storing Eggs, with Cherie Sintes-Glover

Farmer Fred

If you are raising chickens, how do you store your chicken eggs? On the counter, or in the refrigerator? And should you wash those eggs first? Urban Chicken Consultant Cherie Sintes Glover has some quick tips about that, along with how long you can expect eggs to last indoors. Originally aired in the Beyond the Garden Basics Newsletter and podcast, last June 24th.

Farmer Fred

Here's a quick tip for you. We're talking with Cherie Sintes Glover. She is an urban chicken consultant , who runs the website, ChickensForEggs.com . And there's been some sort of interesting talk on the internet about eggs. Can you leave them out on your kitchen sink? Should you wash them first, Cherie, what's the deal with washing eggs and leaving them out of the refrigerator?

Cherie Sintes Glover

That's an excellent question or I should say, Eggsellent question.  So there's always a debate, some of you, perhaps half,  half of the people want to keep the eggs in the refrigerator at all times. The other half, especially if it's their own backyard eggs, maybe leave them out on the counter. And the truth is, a little bit of both are right. So what's super cool about chickens is that when they lay an egg, that egg is actually porous. But the chicken actually lays it with a film, that covers that egg, and protects it. So it keeps bacteria from getting inside of that porous egg shell. And so, if you do bring in eggs from your backyard, for instance, you have a laying flock of hens and you're collecting your eggs  for the day, you can absolutely bring them in, you can keep them out on your counter, it's not going to be a huge issue. Especially because they have that natural protective layer that's covering that egg shell. Now most of us backyard chicken keepers will realize, though, that chicken eggs tend to get a little dirty sometimes, especially  in the nesting box. So you're going to be tempted to wash them. If you do wash them, that is totally okay, and perfectly reasonable to do. But there's a couple of tricks. The first one is if you do wash that egg, you want to use a special brush, they actually have egg wash brushes that you can use that are gentle on the egg shell, but you want to use water that's actually warmer than the temperature of the egg. And the reason for that is it will keep from forcing bacteria in through that porous egg shell. And so make sure the water is warmer than the egg. The other thing you want to do is once you have washed those eggs, then you probably want to put them in your refrigerator, because you've removed that protective coating. And now the refrigerator makes sense. When I bring eggs home from the grocery store, I know that they've been washed, they've been cleaned. I’m going to put those automatically in my refrigerator. And then the daytime temperatures right in the middle of the summer, when it's so hot, I'm probably not going to leave my eggs out for too long. If they are out on the counter, I'm going to probably put them in the refrigerator a little bit more quickly. But if it's in the middle of winter, I'm going to probably keep my chicken eggs out on the counter for a while.

Farmer Fred  2:41

For a while? A couple of weeks?

Cherie Sintes Glover  2:43

Oh,  it can be it may be for a week or two. And they're usually just fine. But I tend not to keep my house too warm. So maybe that factors into it. If they're your own eggs, if you haven't washed them, they will they will definitely keep  for a few days  if not a week or two. But if you wash them, then again, that's going to change that shell and remove that coating and then you're going to want to refrigerate them.

Farmer Fred  3:08

And for refrigeration, what is the usual time that they're good in the refrigerator?

Cherie Sintes Glover  3:13

Well, that's the amazing thing about eggs. So you can actually keep them for at least several weeks, even a month or more. And  a neat thing that you to kind of tell if it's maybe past its prime. So obviously, if you have fresh chicken eggs, you're gonna want to eat them when they're fresh, right when they're within that week that they're laid. But if you can't do that, and they end up being four weeks old, oh my gosh, by all means those make the best hard boiled eggs. The older eggs always work better. Save those older eggs. But the trick that you want to do to maybe see how fresh they are,  take a bowl of warm water of course, remember we want the water to be warmer than the temperature of the egg. And all you have to do is place that egg in that water bowl, and then watch to see if it floats or if it sinks to the bottom. If it rises to the top, then that means it's probably perfect for hard boiling. If it's still down towards the bottom of the water bowl, then you can probably use it for your fried eggs or scrambled eggs or anything like that. So that is the trick. But remember, the water needs to be warmer than the temperature of the egg.

Farmer Fred  4:21

So fresher eggs sink, and older eggs float.

Cherie Sintes Glover  4:23

Yes, there we go. What a great way to say it.

Farmer Fred  4:27

Now I know a lot of people are asking the question, what is the temperature of an egg?

Cherie Sintes Glover  4:31

Oh, gosh, I knew you're gonna ask me that. That's gonna be a hard question. Let's see. It depends on the room temperature. So with an egg, you have to be careful because if it's fertile, this is kind of one of those weird kind of chicken geek things. So a fertile egg will start developing at about 55 degrees or warmer. So if you do have fertile eggs and you don't want them to develop up an embryo, you have to keep them below 55 degrees.

Farmer Fred  5:04

How does this happen without a rooster around?

Cherie Sintes Glover  5:07

Well, yeah, if you have a rooster.  So chickens will typically lay about 475 eggs in their lifetime, give or take maybe 10. And it depends on the breed, it depends on other factors, because, remember that chickens need to have so many hours of daylight in order to receive the chemical trigger to lay an egg. And that magic number is about 14. So when you hear that, you know, people say oh my gosh, my chickens are not laying in the winter, it's really not because the weather is colder, it's actually because the number of daylight hours has has decreased. So it takes them longer to lay one egg, right. So if they're getting only 10 hours of daylight a day, it's going to take them  two days to  get that chemical trigger to lay an egg. So remember, they need 14 hours. What you'll find is that in the commercial facilities, for instance, or sometimes if you do want your hens to continue laying consistently through the colder, or in less daylight hour months, what you can do is you can actually set up a light and give them that extra number of daylight hours. Kind of trick them into it. So you'd want to have the light, though not staying on at night, but actually come on early in the morning. So some people do that . They do actually add a light to the coop to keep them laying consistently. But that does mean that your chicken will not they'll be going through that 475 eggs that they were going to lay in their normal lifetime. They're going to go through that much more quickly. If that makes sense.

Farmer Fred  6:48

Yes, that does make sense. Is there is there a special kind of light bulb?

Cherie Sintes Glover  6:52

No, any type of light will work. And I actually just want to preface that with if you do opt to add a light, some kind of light source to your coop, during especially during the colder months, make sure that it's not a heat lamp. And the reason for that is because heat lamps are such higher  fire danger. Sometimes people will think oh, okay, I'm gonna go ahead and add a light source but gosh, I might as well just get a heat lamp because it's going to be cold. Well, there's so much danger when it comes to fire starting because of those heat lamps. Don't chance it . Just go with a regular light bulb and the chickens won't need the extra heat anyways. They'll be fine.

Farmer Fred  7:29

There's a lot of chicken quick tips for you from Cherie Sintes Glover of ChickensForEggs.com. She's an urban chicken consultant, a certified poultry health inspector, as well. Thanks for the quick tips. Cherie.

Cherie Sintes Glover  7:40

You're very welcome. Thank you so much, Fred.

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Baldo Villegas: Bug Photo Quick Tips

Farmer Fred

A lot of garden questions come in to us asking about garden bugs. Primarily, what is this creature? Is it a good guy or a bad guy? A lot of times, a picture of the suspect is included in the text or email. And I’m here to tell you, we all wish those pictures were just a little bit better. Retired entomologist, Master Rosarian and ace Photographer Baldo Villegas on some quick tips for taking better pictures of garden insects. Originally aired in Episode 200 of the Garden Basics podcast.

Farmer Fred

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. A lot of you like to send pictures of bugs that you can't recognize. As long as you tell me where you're from, and maybe take better pictures, (and we'll get into that) I can help you out, because I have contacts. I know people who know bugs, including this guy right here. If you're looking at your phone, you can see that it's Baldo Villegas, retired state entomologist and Master Rosarian. Aren’t you now above Master Rosarian status? Aren't you like an "Emperor Rosarian?"

Baldo Villegas

No, I'm still a Master Rosarian. I do a lot of identification of insects from all over the world for people. And as long as they send me a picture, if it can be in focus, that'll be great. If they can give you an idea of how big the bug is. That's also nice.

Farmer Fred

What is the easiest way to do that?

Baldo Villegas

Put your finger right next to the bug. When your fingers are in the picture I can get an idea how big the bug is. Also tell me how common it is in your garden. I like to kind of get an idea if it's really a pest or not. Most of the insects that I see are not pests. They're innocent bystanders that just come to the roses or to the plants just to take a little drink of nectar or get a little bite of the pollen.

Farmer Fred

You know, speaking of taking a drink, Baldo likes to walk his acreage here, carrying a Mason jar full of alcohol.

Baldo Villegas

It's not full of alcohol.

Farmer Fred

Okay, half full of alcohol.

Baldo Villegas

And it's rubbing alcohol.

Farmer Fred

All right, all right. But this is a great way to get that picture of that bug. Capture it first. And then you can put that dime or your finger or whatever next to it, so other people can get an idea of just how big the bug is. So what tell me about your Mason jar of rubbing alcohol.

Baldo Villegas

I fill it a little, just a little bit of alcohol and then I go around in the mornings through my garden. I enjoy my garden every morning. And then I look for unusual stuff that might be flying by.

(Note: at this point, Baldo demonstrates how he can gently pinch a bug on a rose plant, and drop it into the jar of alcohol for a better identification and picture later on).

Several years ago, I found a little tiny insect called a sawfly. It turned out to be a new pest for this area. And a lot of gardeners have a lot of problems with this. Sawfly is the common name, it's also called a rose slug. It skelotonizes the surface of the leaves and is very common in our area now (Sacramento County) all the way into the foothills. And all the way into Oregon and Washington.

Farmer Fred

And entomologists get really excited when they find something new.

Baldo Villegas

Yes, I first found that in this area in 2013. And since then he's become a major pest.

Farmer Fred

Baldo is famous for all the bugs that he's discovered in the Sacramento area. Now we are in Baldo's Acres, and being a Master Rosarian, the last time I heard, Baldo, you had over 1000 roses. I think it's more than that.

Baldo Villegas

I have 1500 roses in the ground, and then over 1000 potted plants.

Farmer Fred

But the beauty of being in a rose garden of that size here at the end of April and early May. It's all in bloom. It's just gorgeous here.

Baldo Villegas

Yes. My garden is going to be in full bloom for next two weeks. So I'm going to be enjoying my garden every day.

Farmer Fred

All right, talk more about taking pictures of bugs that you need to get identified. So like you say, it's important that people send as much information as possible when they send that picture of the bug. Where they found the bug, maybe what season they found the bug, and  tell us about your garden, what you're growing, maybe the activity of that bug, does it fly a lot? Or is he just slowly crawling along? What is it doing? When you take a picture of a bug and especially if you've captured it in alcohol, and you can pose it, what items on a bug are you looking most at for a positive identification?

Baldo Villegas

The best thing to do is to get several of the insects, because you might be seeing the immature stages of the insects. So it's also very important to get the adults. The adults are much easier to identify. The nymphs or the immature stages of some of these insects oftentimes are very difficult to identify by a lot of entomologists, but a few of them can do it. I know a lot of the immature insects for this area, but you know, somebody sent me a picture from Connecticut or Massachusetts, and they show me a moth. I don't know what the heck that is. So what I do is, I have friends who know friends, I send them to friends in that area, and they then identify it for me. And  then I get back to the person with the correct identification, and maybe if it's a pest, or a beneficial, or something that 's just passing by.

Farmer Fred

When you're looking at a bug or an adult bug, trying to identify it, are you looking at the number of legs, the antenna or what?

Baldo Villegas

All insects have six legs, antennae, the legs are in the thorax, yes, all insects will have that. But beetles will have the hardened wings, the first pair of wings kind of hardened. So you know that it is a beetle. Because of that, if you see a proboscis or the mouthparts are in the in the form of a syringe, then that's a true bug or aphid. Anything that sucks will have those proboscis, which suck the sap out of the plants. So you look for characteristics like that. Also, it's very important you look at the wings, the wings are the most important thing in insects. In fact, all of the orders of insects usually have some kind of name in the wings. Like coleopteran means harden wings, that means first pair of wings. Theroptera are the lacewings. And the wings are lacy, they call nerve wings. So you look for things like that.

Farmer Fred

So what is Hemiptera? What does Hemiptera mean?

Baldo Villegas

Hemiptera is for the true bugs. And hemi means half. Tera means wings, so half wings, and that's when they fold the wings, the first pair of wings, they look like half wings, you always see a little triangle in there, in a square just above where they fold the wings. And that's called a scutellum. So you look for this kind of character.

Farmer Fred

You come for the roses, stay for the bug talk. It's Baldo Villegas, retired state entomologist, Master Rosarian. Thanks for the photo tips, Baldo.

Baldo Villegas

Thank you.  Anytime, Fred.

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Quick Tip: Hudson’s Golden Gem Apple/Small Apples

Farmer Fred

We have a quick tip on fruit trees from Tom Spellman of Dave Wilson Nursery. Back in Episode 107 of the Garden Basics podcast, we chatted about the Hudson's Golden Gem apple, a rare, high chill apple that is really very very tasty and is known for producing lots and lots of apples on the tree. Now, those apples are on the small side. But as Tom explains, there are some benefits to having small apples, especially if you have school age children.

Farmer Fred

We have a quick tip on fruit trees from Tom Spellman of Dave Wilson Nursery. Recently we chatted about the Hudson's Golden Gem apple, a rare, high chill apple that is really very very tasty and is known for producing lots and lots of apples on the tree. Now, those apples are on the small side. But as Tom explains, there are some benefits to having small apples.

Tom Spellman

In our fourth year of the project, we started thinning because we had so many clusters that were blooming and setting you know six, eight, ten fruit in a cluster. So we started thinning all the fruit down to two. But this is one that I actually went in a couple of years ago and thinned down to one because I couldn't get the fruit size up to quite where I wanted it and that made a difference. But what really made the difference to me was the flavor. I mean, this was just an absolutely wonderful variety. And again, it's an old cider variety. It's a variety that you could use to make apple pies. It's a variety that you could just eat fresh and when I started to think of big you know, I mean big fruit is never really impressed me. Big fruit is something they can get more money for than  small fruit but when you look at where the market is going with things like that, if you look at Cuties and Halos mandarins and you start looking at some of the things that they're marketing in a smaller size, are cherry plums or Pluerry varieties are a good example of that, their golf ball size or ping-pong ball size, but they're just flavor packed and just absolutely delicious. So this, I think, would be a great variety. And you know what would store very well and not necessarily even in refrigerator but in a cool, dry, closet space or something like that. I think we could store it for several months through the winter. And what a great variety to put into kid's lunches. And, if I would have had fruit like that when I was a kid, I don't think I would have ever eaten a Snickers bar.

Farmer Fred

That's Tom Spellman of Dave Wilson Nursery talking about the Hudson's Golden Gem apple. Tom is conducting trials in Southern California growing several varieties of high chill apples in a very low chill area of Orange County. And he's finding that there are several varieties, including the Hudson's Golden Gem that do well in a very, very mild climate. If you want more information about his trials and other picks for the Southwest, visit DaveWilson.com.

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QUICK TIP: Suncrest Peach / Pam Bone

Farmer Fred

So now you’re thinking about getting that Hudson’s Golden Gem apple. Well, here’s another delectable piece of fruit that you might want to be growing in your backyard orchard: the Suncrest peach. Master Gardener Pam Bone told us all about it in Episode 183.

Farmer Fred

We're with Pam Bone in her backyard, here in Sacramento County, California. Pam Bone is a Sacramento County Master Gardener. And we were recently doing a little tour of her backyard. And she stopped at this peach tree and went into high gear about why she loves this peach tree. Pam, what is this peach tree?

Pam Bone

This is Suncrest. We were at  the California State Fair one year, and they were selling these peaches. And we bought one to eat and it was phenomenal. I said what is that peach? And it was Suncrest. So we said, "okay, the next time we have a space open up in the landscape, we are putting it in." We had  another kind of peach in this location, it was a Babcock, and nobody liked it. It was a beautiful tree, though. But we said nope, we're taking it out and we planted the Suncrest. And I don't regret it at all. It has the most delicious peaches, it bears beautifully. You can keep it nice and small. And yet look at this crop already developing on this beautiful tree. Wonderful.

Farmer Fred

We should point out, too, it looks like you've been doing some thinning of the fruit, with a little bit more to come. But basically you're looking for spacing about the width of a fist between the remaining pieces of fruit in order for that fruit to develop a good size.

Pam Bone

Yes, this is one thing that both of us get out here and do. We've already done one pass through, we kind of wait awhile to make the next pass, to just make sure, just in case you get a little bit of drop, if something happens, or whatever. But the most critical one is when the fruit is still as small as it is here (about the size of a large marble). And that's going to give you the best size. So we're looking for that. And so yes, I can see right here, here's a double (two pieces of fruit growing together). I can just pinch it with my finger right now and take it off. And I think I'll do that while we're standing here.

Farmer Fred

You've kept the tree at about six feet tall, and it's got about a six foot spread too. So it makes a very nice looking "fruit shrub" that probably gives enough Suncrest peaches for you and your family.

Pam Bone

Actually it produces so much fruit that I was able to freeze two quarts of peaches in addition to making a peach pie and eating fresh peaches from this tree. And this tree is only, I think, five years old now. It's truly amazing. It has just grown beautifully, it bears beautifully, and the fruit is just delicious. And it has good sized fruit. But you do have to thin the fruit in order to get that size, as well. But you're right. We're kind of now at the stage where we've developed the main scaffolds, the secondaries have been developed. We've got our tertiaries. and Now we're just maintaining the height and going to keep it as is.

Farmer Fred

There you go. The Suncrest peach. You may want to plant one. Pam Bone, thank you.

Pam Bone

Thank you.

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DAVE WILSON NURSERY

Farmer Fred

You have a small yard and you think you don't have the room for fruit trees? Well, maybe you better think again. Because Dave Wilson Nursery wants to show you how to grow great tasting fruits: peaches, apples, pluots, and nut trees. Plus, they have potted fruits, such as blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, boysenberries, figs, grapes, hops, kiwifruit, olives and pomegranates. All plants, that you can grow in small areas. You could even grow many of them in containers on patios, as well. It's called backyard orchard culture. And you can get step by step information via their You Tube videos. Where do you find those? Just go to dave wilson dot com, click on the Home Garden tab at the top of the page. Also in that home garden tab, you’ll find a link to their fruit and nut harvest chart, so you can be picking delicious, healthy fruits from your own yard from May to December here in USDA Zone 9.  Also in that home garden tab? You're going to find the closest nursery to you that carries Dave Wilson's quality fruit trees. They are in nurseries from coast to coast. So start the backyard orchard of your dreams at DaveWilson.com.

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QUICK TIP: HABITUATION

Farmer Fred

You’re listening to our second compilation here on the Garden Basics podcast of quick tips, nuggets of sound advice to be a better gardener. And this is a new quick tip from America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, on warding off pests inside and outside the home. Her advice? If your expecting to  dissuade the pest, be it an insect or a four legged culprit, using sound, lights, shiny items or water, be warned: it won’t work for very long.

Farmer Fred

Here on the Garden Basics podcast, we like to give you a quick tip now and then. And today's tip is about pests: four legged pests, two legged pests, indoor pests, outdoor pests, and the way they adapt to their surroundings. Debbie Flower is here, America's favorite retired college horticultural professor. And today let's talk about habituation.

Debbie Flower

Okay.

Farmer Fred

I saw an ad that came across my email, for a new miracle product to eliminate pests indoors, claiming to get rid of them quickly. And naturally. It read, “If you want to discover the best way to eliminate pests from your home, take note because below you'll discover how you can do it easily.” Well, it's something you plug into a wall.

Debbie Flower

We put a lot of things into walls these days.

Farmer Fred

We do. This looks like my Roku remote control. This one, though, only has one big button on it. And you plug it in to the wall. And the ad for this product says, “If you're having trouble getting rid of insects or pests in your home or workplace, then this product is exactly what you need. It's a state of the art Ultrasonic Pest repellent that uses ultrasonic waves to keep cockroaches, rodents and other pests out of your home. Get rid of pests forever!”

Debbie Flower

What a dream come true.

Farmer Fred

Yes, what a dream come true. But you know, it's not true. You look up any pests, from insects, to birds, to possum to deer. And you hear about all these devices that are available to control mice or geese or whatever. And it usually involves sound, or water, or lights.

Debbie Flower

Or vibrations.

Farmer Fred

And you know something? It will work at first.

Debbie Flower

Yes, momentarily. It's something new in the environment that they haven't figured out yet. So they stay away till they have some time to figure it out.

Farmer Fred

I think they keep coming back. At first, they hear it and they turn around and run. They come back again, they hear it.

Debbie Flower

And they stick around a little longer.

Farmer Fred

Maybe they will back up a few feet then go away. And then the next time they just say, “Nevermind. Let's just do it.” That's the way nature works.

Debbie Flower

Right. That's what habituation is. It becomes the habit for them to experience it and it doesn't interfere with their life. They learn. So they just keep eating.

Farmer Fred

It's like motion sprinklers to keep whatever off your yard. Geese or turkeys. These motion detectors are usually hooked up to a sprinkler or impulse sprinkler. The water comes on while the sound of the sprinkler at first frightens them. They go away. But before you know it, they're coming to your place for a shower.

Debbie Flower

Yes, it feels good now. Nothing bad has happened. Right? That’s habituation.

Farmer Fred

And I think in this case, this ultrasonic device works the same way. In that it'll work temporarily, but the more they hear it, the more they'll get used to it. My concern, though, has to do with your pets, and what are they hearing? For that matter, what is a human hearing? You may not be able to ascertain what you're hearing, but your head might.

Debbie Flower

It may be having an effect on you that you don't even realize,

Farmer Fred

Right. It might be sending you, who knows, secret messages to send all your money to Albania or something.

Debbie Flower

There have been official scientific studies done on these things with controls, full scientific experiments, which show that they do not work. That there are some slight reactions by some species. But they've been tested on ants, cockroaches, mosquitoes, bedbugs, rats, and mice, the mice and birds, the mice were initially repelled. But then they became habituated to the sound. When they do get a response from the mice, it's only in a very specific ultrasonic wave. And this product you're talking about talked about chasing away rodents, which is mice and rats and other things that have to grind their teeth down, and cockroaches, which are a very different species of pest. So they obviously have not tuned this ultrasonic wave to any specific animal. But the scientific experiments still show that even if you get it tuned to the right wavelength, it doesn't work. The pests become habituated. There's a glimmer of hope for a few species but it's not something that is commercially available or even completely worked out yet.

Farmer Fred

The closest that habituation can be thwarted, and I think we see that in the local vineyards, is at harvest time. You know the grapes are edible, but they still need a two or three week period more in order to fully mature. In the meantime,  those grapes are ripe bird food. So how do the growers keep the birds out of their ripening grapes? They usually employ several devices in order to do it. They might start off in the first week with the sound of cannons, or the sound of shot guns going off not at regular intervals, but at irregular intervals so that the crows can't time it. Then they might try aluminum foil strips, colored foil strips, usually red foil strips because they say the birds think it's fire. I don't know about that, but it does keep them off. But for a very short period of time, that those foil strips are effective. Maybe for a couple of weeks at the most. But that may just be enough time for you to get your crop in if you're growing grapes. Yes, they all work for a short amount of time.

Debbie Flower

But this is not this plug-in product for the home we’ve been talking about. It is not going to permanently solve your rodent problems or your insect problems.

Farmer Fred

Now if it may be nice if it put out a whiff of perfume or to to sweeten the air up in your home on a regular basis. Oh, wait a minute. That's a totally different product.

Debbie Flower

Or, calm your pet. I have those.

Farmer Fred

Yeah, if it played lullabies or white noise to help you sleep at night, okay. Do it in combination with that. Yeah.

Debbie Flower

But no, not by itself.

Farmer Fred

Nope. Sorry. Debbie Flower. Thanks for the quick tip.

Debbie Flower

You're welcome Fred.

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Quick Tip: Making More Strawberry Plants from Runners

Farmer Fred

Back in Episode 8 of the Garden Basics podcast we had a discussion with Pam Farley, better known as the “Brown Thumb Mama”, she of the website, BrownThumbMama.com. And she was talking about all the vegetables that she recommends to get kids working out in the garden, growing food that they will enjoy eating. Then, the subject of strawberries came up. And up popped some recommendations on turning one strawberry plant into many strawberry plants.

Farmer Fred

Many months ago we had a discussion with Pam Farley, better known as the “Brown Thumb Mama”, of the website, BrownThumbMama.com. And she was talking about the "Kids Choice Garden Veggies", you can look that up on the Garden Basics podcast (Episode 8, May 5, 2020) and go back and check out all the vegetables that she recommends to get kids working out in the garden, growing food that they will enjoy eating. Then, the subject of strawberries came up.

Farmer Fred

How long do you keep a strawberry plant? Do you replant? Or do you save runners or mother plants? How do you go about it?

Pam Farley

The first year after I plant, I clip off the runners because the runners will tire out and weaken the mother plants. All the moms that are listening to the podcast will understand. All the little ones will tire you out. So I have not replanted any runners. But I can, right? Just as I started them as a separate plant? Do you need to reroot them?

Farmer Fred

Well actually, they are already rooted and you just dig them out. Don't yank them out of the ground. It would be better to clip off that runner and then dig it out and then transplant it to someplace else.

Pam Farley

Ah. That's why I say I have a brown thumb. Sometimes I do things and they don't work and sometimes they do. and I'm always learning.

Farmer Fred

You're getting multiple years out of those mother plants then.

Pam Farley

Yes, I'm on my third year.

Farmer Fred

As Pam Farley found out, Yeah, you can get a few years out of a mother plant. A lot of commercial growers, though, will replant strawberries every year because with each successive year, those mother plants produce fewer and fewer strawberries. But one thing is true: save those runners, don't toss them out. Clip them off, plant them and you'll have more great strawberries in the future. There are even more good tips on propagating strawberry runners in the excellent book, "Plant Propagation" produced by Alan Toogood and American Horticulture Society. It’s an excellent book if you want to get into plant propagation. That book talks about strawberry layering. Many strawberries, it says, have runners that root into the soil. Runner production coincides with the end of fruiting on cropping plants. Plantlets form on these stems as they grow. When the plantlets are well rooted, they may be easily severed from the parent plant. This self-layering habit can be encouraged. Stems may be layered on to the soil or into pots sunk into the bed. Now that's very intriguing. This book goes on to say:

“For best results, keep some plants specifically for layering. Plant these three feet apart and remove the flowers. Keep the soil moist to encourage runners to develop and root peg the runners with wire staples into the soil or into three inch pots filled with a soil-based mix and plunge those pots level with the soil surface. Plant rooted plantlets into their final positions in late summer and autumn for a good crop the following season.”

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Quick Tip: Cut and Drop Mulching, with Robert Pavlis

Farmer Fred

Back in Episode 124, we chatted with the science-based Canadian garden writer Robert Pavlis, the creator of the website, garden myths dot com, who had a quick tip for feeding the soil for healthier plants, a task that didn’t require much work at all: cut, and drop.

Farmer Fred

One of my favorite blogs to read is the Garden Myths blog at gardenmyths.com. The author is Robert Pavlis. A Canadian based gardener, he is science based, he has a lot of great advice. He explodes a lot of gardening myths. And in a recent post about using weed tea, really weed tea, or fertilizer tea, he brings up the point about how he basically feeds his garden with mulch, but it's it's a 'cut and drop' method. What's that all about? Let's find out. Robert Pavlis is with us now. And Robert, tell us about your 'cut and drop' method of feeding your plants.

Robert Pavlis

Well, this started about 15 years ago, I moved to a larger garden, I've got six acres. And I learned very quickly, if you walk around on six acres a lot, you don't get anything done, and you get very tired. So one of the jobs I've always done is composted. You know, I'd have the traditional three bin composting, I haul all the things, I collect the cuttings and the weeds and everything, I haul it down there and turn it a couple times, make some compost, haul it back to the garden. And I realized, that's a whole lot of work. So I had to come up with a better way. So I now use the cut and drop method. And what I do is, when I'm in the garden, anytime I get plant material in my hand, so these could be dead flowers, and cutting things back, I pull a few weeds, you know, whatever it is, I just drop it where it is. Now, if I know I have visitors coming, I usually kind of shove it behind a plant. So it's not so obvious, but for the most part, I just drop it. And what happens is that in two or three days, the sun heats it up, the part dies, turns brown. Couple weeks later, you don't even see it, all those nutrients stay in the garden, and they don't leave, I don't have to move them around. And I don't fertilize my gardens, there's no need to fertilize. So as long as you're not taking things out of the garden that have nutrients, you don't have to add nutrients back. Now, in my vegetable garden, that's a little different, because there, of course, I harvest things. So I may fertilize a little bit, I put on a little nitrogen once in a while. But even there, I fertilize much less than most people. But in my ornamental beds, I leave everything where it is. I do most of my garden cleanup in the spring, you know, we're starting to understand that  garbage that's laying around the garden is critical for native insects to live. And so we leave it in the fall. And what I do is I come up in the spring, and if it's laying on the ground, I just leave it. You know, things like hosta leaves, they'll be laying on the ground, I don't have to clean those up. Nature does that for me, the flower stalk, they're still standing up in spring here. Our winters aren't long enough, I guess, to knock them down. So I cut those out into sort of six inch pieces and just drop them around the hosta. So cleanup is very quick because I don't have to move things around. I just cut it all. And once everything is you know, on the ground, I've done cleanup, and I leave it there. And I agree that, you know, very early on in the spring before the plants start growing, you do see little bits of stuff here and there. But very quickly those things grow. You know, the tulips come up, the daffodils are up, you're looking at the flowers, you don't notice the rest in a couple of weeks. It's all covered with new plant growth. And it all compost on its own. We don't have to put all that effort into it. Same with leaves, they drop off the trees, and for the most part, they stay where they are. I have a couple areas with big maples that get too many leaves. So those I rake half of them off and move them somewhere else where they they can be used. I stopped raking leaves out of beds, I go around the lawn and I rake those leaves into the bed that's closest and I'm done. I don't want to spend time, you know, playing around with leaves. And I find the system works really well. And if you go in nature, if you go into woodland, that's what happens. Everything drops to the ground. And magic happens. You know, the insects come out. The bacteria come out, the fungi come out. They digest it all. You know six months later, it's all gone and underground. And that happens automatically in my garden as well.

Farmer Fred

I noticed in the post for that, on the cut and drop garden that you posted at garden myths dot com that a lot of people were commenting that, "Well yeah, sure, that's gonna work for you because you get summer rain." Does this work in dry climates?

Robert Pavlis

Yeah, well, what will happen is these In fact, summer rain here in late July and August. We typically have very little rain I can go six weeks without rain. So it's kind of a weird place here we get lots of rain and spring and fall but that summers can be very dry. But what happens is you have this leaf of something, it dries very quickly it goes Brown. Now it may not decompose as quickly as in a compost pile. Because you know, a compost pile is hot. We keep a higher moisture level there. It's piled high so it retains the heat and so on. So composting works faster, but this leaf will go brown. It will get crumbly or break up, worms will come up and grab some and take it underground. And I can tell you, in a few months, it's gone.

Farmer Fred

Robert Pavlis, good advice on easing the fertilization of your plants. It's a great way to have time to do other things in life. Garden Myths is the name of his book, you can find out more information about it at gardenmyths.com, plus his other writings, and he has a YouTube page as well. And that YouTube page Robert, is...

Robert Pavlis

Garden Fundamentals,

Farmer Fred

Garden Fundamentals. Robert Pavlis, we learned a lot about easing our fertilization chores, thanks so much for the quick tip.

Robert Pavlis

No problem. Pleasure being here.

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Beyond the Garden Basics Newsletter - If You Can’t Dig Down, Grow Up!

Farmer Fred

In today’s Beyond the Garden Basics Newsletter and Podcast, we talk with Washington State University Horticulture professor Linda Chalker Scott about drainage issues. Linda has written extensively about garden myths in her books and online at the Garden Professors Page on Facebook. And the myth in today’s conversation on the podcast portion of the newsletter deals with drainage, especially the counterproductive practice of adding items to the bottom of a plant container, to improve drainage. It doesn’t. If you don’t believe when Debbie Flower and I say that, maybe Linda Chalker Scott can convince you.

In the newsletter portion of the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, we talk about improving drainage in slow-draining garden soil. And we write about drainage issues to solve when building a raised garden bed. Give it a listen before you decide to build a raised bed on top of your lawn. Plus, we have a nifty trick for thwarting gophers from attacking raised beds.

All that is in today’s Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter.

For current newsletter subscribers, look for the issue entitled, “If you can’t dig down, grow up!”. If you are already a subscriber, it’s probably in your email, waiting for you now.  Or, you can start a free subscription or read it online, it’s free! Find the link to the newsletter in today’s show notes or sign up at the newsletter link at our homepage, gardenbasics dot net.

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Quick Tip:  GROW YOUR OWN POPCORN

Farmer Fred

This spring, i’m cutting down on the number of tomato and pepper plants I’ll be planting. Because I want to use a lot more of my prime garden space for a crop that I seem to never  have enough of: heirloom popcorn. I usually run out of this very healthy, home grown snack by December. What is heirloom popcorn? Well, for one thing, it is far and away much tastier than that stuff labeled popcorn that they sell in bags next to the potato chips. And, it has much more flavor than most hybrid varieties of unpopped popcorn. Plus, some heirloom popcorn varieties have the added benefit of having soft, crunchy tasting leftover kernels, unlike those hard kernels at the bottom of the popcorn bowl that could crack a tooth. How do you grow popcorn? Here it is. From way back in Episode 4 of the Garden Basics podcast.

Farmer Fred

We've been speaking about fun things to do with the kids and that, of course, includes gardening. And growing kid-friendly crops. Here's one they're sure to enjoy. It's popcorn. Have you ever grown popcorn? No? You ought to give it a try, especially as interest in healthy eating continues to grow. The time of year to plant popcorn is when the soil temperature is consistently in the upper 50’s and higher. For some in USDA Zone 9, that may be late April. For most of the country, mid May through mid June is the time for backyard gardeners to make room for that family favorite. And it's good for you. Popcorn, is a dent corn relative and it's one of the best all around snack foods you can munch on. It provides almost as much protein, iron and calcium as beef. A cup of popped, unbuttered popcorn contains fewer calories than half a medium sized grapefruit, about 40 calories. Popcorn is a whole grain and that means it has as much fiber as bran flakes or whole wheat toast. And if you've never tasted homegrown popcorn, you are in for a treat.

Farmer Fred

Unlike the drab sameness of store-bought hybrid popcorn, there are many different kinds available for the home gardener via catalogs, nurseries, and seed stores. So if you're looking for popcorn seeds, you might want to start at the seed rack at your local big box store or local hardware store, then go to the nursery. And if that doesn't work, try online garden catalog sources and see if they have any popcorn seed left. Some of the better outlets for heirloom popcorn seed include the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, as well as Baker Creek heirloom seeds.  For hybrid popcorn seed, check online at Burpee Seed company, Park seed company, Johnny’s, and Harris. Now you're probably familiar with the traditional big and chewy, movie-style yellow hybrid popcorn. Well, you can choose among several smaller, crunchier white varieties and that includes many heirlooms as well as hybrid varieties. And you know, for fall decorations it's hard to beat the colorful popcorns that include blue, red and black kernels.

Farmer Fred

Now, a word or two, about heirloom versus hybrid popcorn. What do we mean by that? Well, hybrid varieties are bred to produce more cobs per corn stalk as well as larger cobs. And, hybrid popcorns tend to pop up bigger as well. That sounds really good, doesn't it? There is a downside. The seed you collect from your popcorn harvest from hybrid popcorn will not come back true to the original, if you plant it again the following year. The downside to heirloom popcorn? Those heirloom varieties tend to have the same problems as other heirloom vegetables. They're more susceptible to insect and disease problems. It's a smaller harvest and smaller kernels. But there is one big upside to growing heirloom popcorn, and that's better flavor. Plus if you planted the heirloom popcorn away from other varieties of corn, the kernels you collect this year can be planted again the following year, the results being the same: Great flavor. Among my favorite heirloom popcorn seeds to grow and include Wisconsin Black, Dakota Black, Cherokee Long Ear. But my favorite is 1886 Pennsylvania Butter Flavor Popcorn.

Farmer Fred

The time to plant your popcorn is usually late May through June, anytime in there. And you would plant popcorn the same way you would plant sweet corn. By the way, don't ever plant sweet corn and popcorn together. You'll have two conflicted crops. You might break a tooth when chomping down on an ear of sweet corn. And popcorn cross pollinated by sweet corn won't be popcorn, it won't pop up. So to repeat, you have to separate the distance that you plant sweet corn from popcorn by quite a distance. But if you're growing popcorn by itself, isolated and none of your nearby neighbors are growing sweet corn, you should be okay. So what does a popcorn required to grow? Much of the same requirements as sweet corn, full sun, a soil that drains easily, no standing water. Plant the kernels about two inches deep, six inches apart.

Farmer Fred

Now for better pollination, don't plant them in a single row. Plant them in squares, or in short blocks. They are wind pollinated and that aids the pollination. Thin out the seedlings when they come up to stand about 10 to 12 inches apart. When it comes to fertilizing popcorn, three fertilizations work best: the first, at planting time; when the stalks are knee high; and again when the tassels appear at the top of the stalks. Because popcorn can grow tall, six or seven feet tall, it does use a lot of nitrogen to get growing. Perhaps choose a high nitrogen fertilizer where the nitrogen is about twice the amount of phosphorus and potassium. The numbers on the bag of fertilizer would say something like 10-5-5 or 8-4-4. No need to get the really super duper heavy nitrogen stuff. Nitrogen fertilizers, the ones in the single digits, would just be fine. You want to irrigate the popcorn thoroughly once or twice a week and then stand back and wait.

Farmer Fred

Watch those stalks grow. Usually early fall is the time when you're going to be harvesting your popcorn. Here in California, it's early October. The stalks will be mostly brown. The husks will be dry and the kernels will be hard, so we'll wait for those stalks to turn completely brown before you start harvesting those cobs of popcorn. When will it be ready? Try popping a few kernels on the stove, in a pan of hot oil at this stage. If most of them pop, that's your sign to remove the ears from the rest of the stalks in your garden. Strip the outer covering from the ears, the husks, and then place those cobs of corn with the kernels still intact on a ventilated tray, or in a mesh bag, or in an old nylon stocking to cure for two or three weeks in a warm ventilated area out of direct sun. After that period of time, pop a few kernels again, if they pop, then strip the kernels from the cobs and store the kernels in an airtight container in a cool dry place.

Farmer Fred

Now if that popcorn you munch on is a little chewy, that means it's still too wet. Let the kernels dry some more, popping a few every couple of days until the popcorn is no longer chewy. That’s the way to go. Now if you get too many unpopped kernels, add moisture to the storage container. Pour a tablespoon of water over that container of popcorn kernels. Shake it up a couple of times on day one. By day three, try popping up another batch. Repeat this procedure until most of the kernels are popping. Probably the most difficult part about growing popcorn, and this is where the whole family can join in, is stripping the kernels from the cob. It's a little difficult. It's a little hard. Buy a cheap pair of garden gloves and wear those, or you can buy this device that a lot of seed companies sell.

Farmer Fred

It's called the “little stripper”. Okay. Now that your imagination has run wild, let me tell you exactly what the little stripper is. It's actually a cone shaped device that fits over the ear of popcorn. It has plastic or metal ribs on the inside and you turn it as you go down the cob. That strips off the kernels. Again, you can find this online. I think the Jung  or Vermont seed company may have those. Again, storage is important. You want to store the kernels in an airtight container in a cool dry place and be sure to label it, date it as well, and you'll want to put the name of the variety on there because if your family really likes it,  then you can set aside a small bag of those kernels to plant next year. If you want more information about growing popcorn, checkout the Farmer Fred Rant blog page and look for the post called “Grow Your Own Popcorn.”

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FLASHBACK EPISODE “Plant Partners” (Ep. 78)

Farmer Fred

From the garden e-mail bag, Rahul from Saint Louis Missouri says, “After listening to your episode with the author, I got Jessica Walliser’s book, ‘Plant Partners’, but would love to hear what you have to say about companion planting!

Farmer Fred

Thanks for writing in Rahul.

Companion planting can mean different things to different people, and not all of their suggested combinations have any support in scientific research, but are certainly popular on the internet.

In her book,”The Informed Gardener Blooms Again”, Linda Chalker Scott writes, “Traditional companion plant charts have entertainment, not scientific value.” It would be better, says Chalker-Scott, to not use the phrase “companion plant” and instead use phrases such as “intercropping” or plant associations, which are more definable and credible.

One of the more credible garden writers on the subject is Jessica Walliser. Back in Episode 78 of the Garden Basics podcast, we talked with Walliser, who is the author of the book, Plant Partners. She talked about scientific proven strategies for incorporating different plants into your vegetable garden to fend off the bad guys by attracting the garden good guys.

Check out our conversation about Plant Partners, recorded back in 2020, in Episode 78 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. Also in that episode from our first season we offer a timely tip: how deep should you plant that new fruit tree? You can find a link to this Flashback episode in today’s show notes, or wherever you get your podcasts, or at our homepage, garden basics dot net.

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Farmer Fred

The Garden Basics With Farmer Fred podcast comes out once a week, on Fridays. Plus the newsletter podcast, that comes with the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, continues, also released on Fridays. Both are free and are brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. The Garden Basics podcast is available wherever podcasts are handed out, and that includes our home page, Garden Basics dot net. , where you can also sign up for the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter and podcast. That’s Garden Basics dot net. or use the links in today’s show notes.  And thank you so much for listening.