255 To Repot or Not?

Show Transcript

GB 255 Repot or Not? TRANSCRIPT

Farmer Fred  0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

Since the name of the show is Garden Basics, let’s cover something that’s basic, but not necessarily easy or successful. Today, America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, and I walk you step by step through the topic of how to repot a plant. It’s not as simple as you might think, and we offer tips to make sure your repotting efforts are more successful.

Topics covered include:

• if a plant is overgrown in a pot, do you need to use a bigger pot? (Not necessarily.)

• What is a sure fire way of knowing your plant has overgrown the pot? (We’ll tell you, and it’s a habit you should get into doing on a regular basis.)

• What are the easiest ways of removing a cramped plant from its pot? (Debbie has a serious tool for the job, a garden implement that no gardener should be without.)

• Do you need to use new potting soil when repotting? (Perhaps. Perhaps not.)  We will tell you what to look for when shopping for fresh potting soil. And we’ll tell you ways to rejuvenate the existing soil. Plus,  we have a recipe for making your own potting soil!

• Should you fertilize a newly repotted plant? (It depends on the fertilizer.)

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Potsand Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

Farmer Fred

It's not quite the main planting season yet, so you might be busying yourself around the house and the yard looking at all those plants in containers and wondering, “Hmm, should I repot those? I wonder if I should move them up a size?” Yes or no? Let's find out. America's favorite retired college horticultural Professor, Debbie Flower is here, in the abutilon jungle in Suburban Purgatory. We are going to decide whether to repot or keep the plant in the same container. But how do you do that? Well, let's find out. So Debbie, I think a good habit for a lot of people to get into if they have any container plants is occasionally look at the bottom and see if there are roots coming out.

Debbie Flower  2:49

Yes, roots often go right to the bottom and even come out the bottom, especially if you have them in a container that holds some moisture down there. And that's pretty tight quarters for that plant.

Farmer Fred  3:02

And when you see those roots coming out, you've got to make a decision.

Debbie Flower

Yes, you do.

Farmer Fred

Do you want to put it in a bigger pot? Do you like the plant? Do you want to save it, but you definitely don't want to leave it the way it is. You don't want a pot where the drainage holes are clogged.

Debbie Flower  3:18

Right. And if the drainage holes are clogged, the rest of the pot is probably pretty full of roots. And that plant's growth into the future will be limited, because of the lack of other media and space in that container.

Farmer Fred  3:33

We did a recent interview with Quentyn Young, a local landscaper who visited his client's house after a recent rain and saw a potted maple tree, a Japanese maple tree, with the water floating on the surface of the pot. Oops. And it was a big, nice pot. And he turned over the pot, with a lot of difficulty. The drain holes, which was actually one big drain hole,  was completely clogged by a huge root.

Debbie Flower  3:58

Wow, that plants had been in there a while.

Farmer Fred  4:01

He said it took a Saws-all to get through the root. But that is something to do, to make sure that your plants aren't anchored into the soil by the roots, right?

Debbie Flower  4:09

Plants in pots will grow to a limited size, they can't get huge because they don't have the ability to produce the roots that they need to be a bigger plant. And those roots can clog the drain holes, as you say.

Farmer Fred  4:23

So, a gardener has a decision to make: whether to buy a bigger container and put that overgrown plant into a larger container. But what if they really liked the container it's in? Can they keep that plant in the same container, even though it looks like it has overgrown that pot?

Debbie Flower  4:41

Yes, they can keep the plant in the same container it will not get any bigger. And in the process of transplanting you might see some parts of it die back but it will recover and look good for another season. But keeping it in the pot requires some amendments, some refreshing of the soil that the roots grow in.

Farmer Fred  5:04

One rule that you've often stressed when it comes to planting in containers is make sure the container is clean and free of disease, right? If you're repotting in the same pot, should you remove that plant and clean the pot again?

Debbie Flower  5:19

if there's no sign of disease, I wouldn't worry about that.

Farmer Fred  5:23

And then it's just a matter of trying to jam it back in if you want to save the pot.

Debbie Flower  5:27

Right. So first, you want to get the plant out. And that's not always the easiest thing I find with terracotta pots that are not sealed on the inside, the roots actually sort of adhere to the terracotta on the inside of the pot. I've seen actual sort of layers of fine roots all up against the pot. So I take a sharp tool, a Hori-Hori is my favorite tool for this, which is a Japanese tool, kind of sword shaped but short, six to eight inches long. It has a very nice set of teeth on one side of that sword. I jam it down the side of the pot and go around the pot, sawing basically between the pot and the root ball.

Farmer Fred  6:13

That's a good use for a Hori Hori knife. It is perfectly suited for that yes. So you've got the plant free then. And you've probably turned the pot over and somehow managed to free the roots  if they were coming through the drain holes, too.

Debbie Flower  6:27

Sometimes you got to stick the tip of that Hori Hori in that drain hole and go around it is well, if roots have come out of the drain hole, I cut them off, they're not going to survive this process. And I never want to pull the plant out of the pot. When you pull on a plant, you're stressing the roots, coming out of the base of the plant. And they can snap and break and you can do extra root damage. I try to pour the plant out of the pot, turn it on its side as you said. If it's a plastic pot, it's easier because you can push on the pot and smash that root ball a little bit and get it away from the sides of the of the container. With a more rigid pot, you really have to work it with the tool. If the Hori Hori blade is not deep enough, you may have to lay the pot on its side. And that hopefully will cause the root ball to pull away from the the upside of the pot. And you can get in there with maybe a longer tool, a long screwdriver, or some other kind of tool or your hand, and then use the Hori Hori and get it loose.

Farmer Fred  7:27

Sometimes if it's a plastic pot, you could probably just put the pot on its side and sort of push it, turn it, push it.

Debbie Flower

Or step on it.

Farmer Fred

I won't step on it .I’ve done that, I was being kind. But yeah, you could step on it if it's a cheap plastic pot, right. And you don't really care that much about a plastic pot. You just to get that plant out of there. And actually, what should the moisture level be of that soil in this process? I would think that a lot of gardeners might say to themselves, “Well, if the soil is dry, it'll it'll come right out.” But it seems to me, you would want that soil moist.

Debbie Flower  7:59

There's two sides to it. And I have, in general, like it moist. But somebody I worked with said don't moisten it, that will swell the roots and the media and it will be harder to get it out. I think of the water, though, as a lubricant. And that helps to get the roots out. It also does less damage.  I don't have any scientific evidence to back me up, but it seems there is less damage to the roots if they're lubricated with water.

Farmer Fred  8:24

And of course, if it is a really nice terracotta pot, but you're mad, I guess you could break the pot.

Debbie Flower  8:30

I've broken plastic ones. I haven't broken terracotta ones to get a plant out. But they I have, of course, broken them other ways.

Farmer Fred  8:38

Oops, it dropped.

Debbie Flower

Yes.

Farmer Fred

Okay, so if you're trying to save the pot to use it again, then yeah, the Hori Hori knife sounds like an excellent way to get in there to get that plant.

Debbie Flower  8:48

Yes. And then you want to pour the plant out. Now you have the two separated.

Farmer Fred  8:52

Right. And you've got what will probably be, if you just by looking at that plant in the pot think oh, that plant is too big for that pot. When you pull it out, you're gonna see a lot of roots going round and round and round.

Debbie Flower  9:03

Right. And if it's very rootbound, the the root ball will stay together. And I cut down the four sides and an X across the bottom. And I'll do it over a potting bench, on a piece of tarp, a kitty litter box, something that will collect all the debris that's going to fall off. Because I reuse media. I don't want to reuse the parts that have big chunks of root but little bits of root. I'll keep that too. That's just some organic matter. And by cutting that outside, most of your roots are going to be on the outside and most of your feeder roots are going to be outside and that root ball may start to fall apart. And then that's helpful actually to get it back into that pot if it's going to be the same size pot.

Farmer Fred  9:46

How deep are you making the cutouts on the side of the root ball?

Debbie Flower  9:49

It can vary. There are all kinds of different ways to to do it. I don't go very deep, quarter inch, half inch on the sides and an “X” across the bottom. If it's super, super, super rootbound, all I'm seeing are roots, I might cut the bottom off, might cut an inch or two off the bottom. I might butterfly it, which means cut up the middle of the root ball, but I don't go all the way to the plant, I'll go maybe two thirds of the way or three quarters of the way from the bottom up towards the base of the plant. I do that more for putting plants in the ground. You can spread out the roots then.

Farmer Fred  10:27

If you're going to a bigger pot, you might be able to do that. Right. But that brings up a very good question, how big a pot should you go to when you're going to a bigger pot?

Debbie Flower  10:37

The rule of thumb is an inch greater diameter than what it's in already.

Farmer Fred

The diameter at the top or the bottom?

Debbie Flower

The diameter at the top. That's the distance across from one side to the other side, on the inside. If you're going to a bigger pot that allows you to add new media around the outside. If it's deeper, you want to hold the the old plant over the new container, you want to leave “headroom”, it's called. Leave a half inch to maybe as much as an inch between the top of the media the plant is in and the top of the pot. Hold the plant with one hand and fill the pot with the other hand, with the roots dangling down. Let the roots dangle down and then lay it on the bottom of the pot. If the roots are too long, you want to go in with a sharp tool, I actually keep scissors in my gardening tools and cut those roots off. You don't want them to turn corners, that's not helpful to the plant.

Farmer Fred  11:30

How quickly does a plant put on new roots when it's been cut like that?

Debbie Flower  11:35

Well, the part that's critical for the plant is the root hairs. That's extensions of the cells at the tips of the roots. And they're the  only place in the root system that water and nutrition is drawn up in the roots. I should say that's the only place in the root system where water and nutrients enter from outside the roots into the roots. Then they get into the roots and travel up to the plant from there. It varies, but it takes two to three days for new root hairs to form. And so that plant needs to be protected for two to three days from sun and wind. Those are the two bad guys because they're the things that are going to cause the plant to try to give off water, to evaporate water from inside the plant, to regulate its own temperature. And if it doesn't have root hairs, it can't do that.

Farmer Fred  12:25

It sounds like water is pretty important in this whole repotting process. So I would imagine that the media that you're adding - here’s another scenic bypass - we have to decide on what you’re going to use to add to that soil. What sort of potting mix or potting soil or ingredient do you add and how moist should it be?

Debbie Flower  12:45

I want the media if I'm going to keep this in a container. I want container media. And hopefully the plant I just took out of the pot is rooted into container media. So container media is a soilless mix. A classic recipe is peat moss, perlite and vermiculite in a one to one to one ratio. Some slow release nutrients can be added. You have recipes on your website that are very useful. Cornell University has a very an older publication. It's very classic. And it's taught in horticulture schools as the container media to use (https://www.vermiculite.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/peatlite.pdf). And then people have modified those media to be specific to the plant you're planting. If it's a plant that loves water, you're going to have more of the peat component. You're going to use what's local. When I worked at an Ag Experiment Station in the Portland Oregon area, we didn't use peat moss, we use ground bark because the timber industry was big in the Portland Oregon area and we could get ground bark cheaply. If you're in the tropics, it's going to be, I don't know, chopped up something.

Farmer Fred

They have coconuts.

Debbie Flower

Yeah, well, there's coir. Coir is coconut fiber and that comes off the outside of the coconut. It's a byproduct of the coconut industry, and so you can use that chopped up. If you have a great composting facility near you, you can use compost. So the organic component, the peat component, can be replaced by whatever's local and the amount of it will depend on what else is in the mix. The ratio of that organic material in the mix will go up or down depending on how much water you want that container to hold: more peat for plants that like a lot of water or a more organic component for plants that like a lot of water. More of the rock component which is the perlite or vermiculite, for the plants that like a lot of drainage, like a succulent or a cactus. Other things can be substituted for the perlite and vermiculite.  I like to use pumice for the perlite. I like vermiculite so I use it. Sand can be a component in it.

Farmer Fred  14:52

There was a recent post by the University of California on the properties of common soil mix components, and you're right. There's no Soil in the soil mix components. And they talk about peat moss, bark and sawdust, coir, perlite, vermiculite, sand, volcanic rock like pumice that you like a lot. That all sounds like seed starting mix. So it sounds like for container plants, could you use seed starting mix?

Debbie Flower  15:21

Well, you could. Except that in  seed starting mix, all of those components are very small. You can buy perlite in various sizes, vermiculite in various sizes, pumice in various sizes. And so the smallest stuff is used for seed starting because seeds are small and they need to be able to push the media out of its way so it can get to the light and make its own food for a plant that is already growing. We use a bigger size they're often called the “horticultural size” perlite or the “horticultural size” vermiculite so it’s kind of easy and when you buy it at the nursery, typically seed starting mix will be one thing and then the components that are sold separately are more the horticultural size for already established plants.

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REPOT OR NOT? Pt. 2

Farmer Fred

Let's get back to our conversation with America's favorite retired college horticultural Professor, Debbie Flower, about choosing the right soil mix when you're repotting your plants. The University of California being a University of course, has an exact criteria for what the physical properties of selected media should be. And they include total porosity. And the percentage of that should be equal to or greater than 50%. Water holding capacity equal to or greater than 40%. Air volume equal to or greater than 10%. And weight should be less than .75 grams per cubic centimeter.

Debbie Flower  18:45

Well, I've done labs when I was in graduate school and undergraduate school where we measured those things, but it's not something somebody at home is going to measure. So the precreated recipes are very useful. I do buy container media. You look at all those bags at your local garden center and read what's on the bags and some will say “for containers” and I look at those and I'll buy some of those. I always amend them. I always think they don't have enough of the rock component and that would be for air porosity and water porosity.

Farmer Fred  19:20

Okay, they do have the UC mix that we've been alluding to which is a one to one to one ratio of sand, redwood shavings (there's your California component)  and peat moss, but you're kind of particular about sand, too. You gotta be careful what you get.

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Debbie Flower  19:37

Yeah, it needs to be horticultural sand. Builders sand from hardware stores is usable as well. Of all the components of a garden soil - sand, silt, and clay - sand has the greatest range in size and if you put a big range of particle size together, you block up your pores. So your total porosity which he says should be greater than or equal to 50%, that goes down. So you want sand that has been sized. So it's been the sizes of the sand have been separated and washed because sand typically exists near salt water. And you don't want that salt.

Farmer Fred  20:14

Yes, there is, in this article, mention of the need of freedom from toxicity, salts, pests and pathogens.

Debbie Flower  20:21

And that is why the field soil in your garden is not recommended to be used in a container, because it has many, many sizes. And so it tends to not have enough porosity. So the small particles are nestled around the big particles and there aren't any nice holes for air and water to travel through. That's one reason. Another reason is you've got insects and weed seeds and disease potential in that media. So before there was a big industry and we're talking way back in the 1700s, before there was a big industry in peat, perlite, vermiculite, that sort of stuff that we can easily buy now, media from the garden was used, but it was sterilized. And you can still do that. I've been places where there are sterilizers. For media, when you put field soil in, you sterilize it, you can look up recipes, you can do it in the oven, it stinks.

Farmer Fred  21:17

So you have your outdoor kitchen pizza oven, right,

Debbie Flower  21:20

And you have to use a lot of energy to sterilize it, you have to heat it up. Some of these components like perlite and vermiculite are heated up before they're bagged, and we buy them. And so what's your carbon footprint on either side of this? Somebody else can calculate that. For me, I'm not going to do it, but it was used. And then there are soil sieves, if you've been in a soil lab, there are basically screens of different sizes so that you can get different sizes of media and separate them out and choose the ones you want for your container. So that was done hundreds of years ago, before the industry created the wonderful conveniences we have now,

Farmer Fred  21:58

Many of the gardeners listening, I'm sure, have either a compost pile or a vermicomposting system where worms are making some very fine worm castings. Can you add compost or worm castings to a container mix?

Debbie Flower  22:12

You can if it's been in a hot compost, which means it's gotten up to 140 degrees and stayed there for a number of hours. That kills the bad stuff in it. And then typically, it should be sized. When I worked at Sierra College, we had a table with a hole cut in it, big enough, just about the size of a big garbage can. The whole diameter of the hole was the diameter of the top of the big garbage cans, we put a big garbage can under the table and put the peat moss which we buy in bulk on the table and then shove it over to the hole. And the hole was covered with a half inch screen in it. And we just sifted it, we pushed the peat moss through that. So if I were using my own compost, I would do the same thing.

Farmer Fred  22:56

Yeah, you can buy those soil sifters online, there are some garden supply companies that sell them. They almost look like a miner panning for gold. They're usually 12 inch square plastic containers about three inches deep. And on the bottom you have your choice of the mesh screen, either a quarter inch or a half inch mesh.

Debbie Flower  23:15

Half inch is recommended for not starting seeds, but to use with plants in containers.

Farmer Fred  23:20

And then quarter inch for seed starting?

Debbie Flower

Yes, yes. Okay. And so that that's one way to do it, too. If you want to add something else, like finished compost is generally a fairly fine product.

Debbie Flower  23:32

it is. Especially if you buy it. And everything's broken down. You shouldn't use unfinished compost, you shouldn't be able to recognize plant parts, you shouldn't be able to see a leaf or a stem or a seed or anything. It should just look like stuff.

Farmer Fred  23:47

The most perfect soil you could find.

Debbie Flower  23:49

Yes, and smell good too.

Farmer Fred  23:51

The one downside that you've often mentioned about using organic components, like compost or worm castings, is as they break down, the volume level will shrink in that container.

Debbie Flower  24:01

Yes. And so if you had a plant in a container all last year, and you're getting ready for spring growth of plants. It's going to explode as conditions for growing get better and better as we get into spring. And that's when you know, hopefully, the plant can put on new roots and has the ability to absorb nutrients and water. When you go to look at that container, the one in which that plant was in a container all last year, it has probably dropped much lower than you remember it when you put it out last year. And that's because the organic component has broken down. And so part of what we're trying to do by refreshing the plant when we take it out of the pot and refreshing the media is adding media that has more porosity to it. For reusing the container, we've taken the plant out of the container, we've cut the roots, hopefully knocked off some of the existing media, then we're going to use other media that has some more porosity in it. And so that's going to be the organic matter that hasn't broken down as well as the rock component that doesn't break down, it provides porosity. And we're going to put that maybe a little bit into the pot in which we're putting back the plant that we're putting back in the same pot, and then around the plant that we're putting back in the same pot. So the exterior of the root ball which is really where the root growth is happening, we'll have better texture.

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REPOT OR NOT? Pt. 3

Farmer Fred

Let's get back to our conversation with college professor, retired, Debbie Flower. It’s all about repotting plants. And we have the answer to the question, “Should you fertilize when you're repotting?”

Farmer Fred

I would think a lot of people, when you talked about repotting, that it's going to take three days for that plant to develop new roots, they would think -  being the nurturing kind of people gardeners are - they might think, “Oh, I'll just help it along by giving it some fertilizer.”

Debbie Flower  27:19

No, no, no, no. That's like, if you cut your arm, and then you put salt on it. It's, Oh, ouch. No, you want to let the plant do its thing and develop its new roots. It can't take up the fertilizer anyway during that time, it doesn't have the root tips to do that. You've got to give it the three days. I’tll live off of what it has stored inside of it and plant store food everywhere they can. Plants make their own food, and then they store it. Stems are a great storage place. But even leaves can store food. And the plant will utilize that and break it down. They will make it into what it needs, send it where it needs to go, and make the new roots. And then you can add the fertilizer.

Farmer Fred  28:00

Oh, nice. You scared me about fertilization. Yeah, it would make sense. Why fertilize something that it can't uptake? It doesn't have the feeder roots. But the organic gardener might say “well, I will give it organic fertilizer because it lasts in the soil longer. So when those roots develop that fertilizer will be there waiting for them.”

Debbie Flower  28:17

And that is a good practice. And frankly, I do some of that. The thing is, that organic fertilizer takes a long time to break down. It is not available in a form the plant can take up when you put it in the container. It takes time, temperature, sometimes microorganisms, as well, to reach the form that the plant can take up so it's not hurting the plant as you transplanted it immediately.

Farmer Fred  28:41

What sort of an organic fertilizer would you use? Because you've often talked about how salts are so dangerous. And fertilizers in both inorganic and organic fertilizers, have salts.

Debbie Flower  28:52

Right. So you want to use a slow release fertilizer. There are also inorganic forms of slow release fertilizer, those are the pelletized ones The container will say they last a certain number of months or certain number of days. Be aware that that certain number of months or certain number of days is assuming that the plant is at a nice room temperature, say 70 degrees, and has some moisture in the media the whole time. If it's warmer and moist, then that pelletized fertilizer will be used more quickly, it will be released more quickly. So you might want t