253 Garden Tips to Save Time, Money, Water. Live!

Show Transcript

GB 253 TRANSCRIPT Garden Tips, Live, at the Elk Grove Garden Club

Farmer Fred  0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

What should you do when an unexpected heavy frost or freeze damages your plants? How can mulch save you water? Are those extra ingredients in fertilizers and potting soils worth the expense? What’s a good soil recipe for starting seeds? What’s a good soil mix for growing blueberries? Why is soil pH important? How can you get seeds to germinate more quickly? How can you tell if those old seeds are any good? What is an inexpensive way to protect young plants in the garden in early spring? Are eucalyptus or cedar wood chips ok to use in the garden? How do you mulch around irises? Why do you need a fan blowing on young indoor seedlings? How do you control soil grubs?

Wow, that a lot of questions. And America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, and I, provide the answers (or opinions) at this, a live mid-February recording at the Elk Grove California Garden Club. A splendid time was had by all.  It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, Live (sort of) brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

Susan Muckey  1:47

A lot of you have probably heard Farmer Fred on the radio and imagine what he looks like. Well, now you know. Anyway, today, we are honored to have two very special guests. Not only one Master Gardener, but two Master Gardeners to come and educate us, help educate us. Fred Hoffman, aka Farmer Fred, has been a Master Gardener for many, many years (since 1982). He started out in radio a long time ago (when Nixon was President). And he was on the radio in college, and he has done things besides gardening shows. He was a DJ for many, many types of music. And I think people that are on radio have that radio kind of voice. That radio voice, doesn't matter what you're talking about. It just sounds good.

Our other speaker is Debbie Flower. And Debbie Flower is a retired professor of horticulture. And she taught for many, many years at American River College. I was reading up on some things about her. And I think the most exciting thing about being a teacher is when you can inspire a love of what you're teaching to other students. And that was pretty much what I read about. That Debbie inspired love of plants and horticulture to her students. So without further ado, our very honored guests, Fred and Debby.

Farmer Fred  3:33

Well, thank you very much. I think you can hear me without a microphone. And actually, Susan, I'm gonna put you to work later on during the question portion of our program. You could walk around with the microphone and get the questions from the people so they don't have to stand up and shout. Thank you. We are recording this for the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, and incredibly popular podcast, much to my surprise. I’ve been doing it since April of 2020. And it has grown by leaps and bounds. And for a very good reason. This woman here has been on that podcast since the inception. Debbie Flower has taught at local colleges, such as American River College, Sierra College, at Folsom Lake College. Where else?

Debbie Flower  4:19

A place called the Skills and Business Education Center, which is part of the Sac City School District. They had a work program that I taught there.

Farmer Fred  4:25

She has a heck of a big fan club of former students who just love her. And she's very gracious to join us here today. Thank you. Oh, by the way, if you don't know where the podcast is, but you know how to find a website, the website is gardenbasics.net

The alleged topic we're here to talk about today is “spring garden tips to save time, money and water”. And there are a lot of ways you can save time, money and water and we will just go through some of them.

Any of you lose plants in the last couple of weeks because of cold mornings? Yeah. You think you've lost plants. They look sad. My best friend in the backyard, Chuck, looks sad. It's a Brugmansia, Charles Grimaldi. And Chuck is looking real sad. And that's what happens when you try to grow plants that are out side of your USDA zone. You look at a Brugmansia, what is that, about a USDA Zone 10 plant? It's semi tropical. And here, as long as the weather stays above 30, the brugmansia will do fine. But once it gets down into the mid 20s, like it did a couple of weeks ago, we are starting to see some very sad plants.

Debbie Flower  5:33

And mine it started blooming, my Charles Grimaldi. Was yours in bloom?

Farmer Fred  5:37

Oh, yeah. It flowered because we had warm weather.

Debbie Flower  5:40

Oh, I love it. I love it. And then you go out the next day, and it's sad.

Farmer Fred  5:42

So what would you do to save time in this regard?

Debbie Flower  5:46

I wouldn't touch it. The dead parts on top are going to protect what's below. So if there's more cold coming, and Fred was telling me the 50-50 date for in Sacramento for the chance of frost being 50%, is February 15. I think of March 15 or March 17. Because that's St. Patrick's Day. And it's always easy to remember holidays as a date when we have our average last frost. But Fred was also telling me that we had a frost April 12 of last year. So it's unpredictable. But what happens at night? The sun goes down. And if it's a clear night, the heat from the earth starts coming up and it just keeps on going. If you put something in its way, a porch roof, some frost cloth or dead plant parts, then it traps that heat underneath whatever it is: the porch roof, the dead plant parts. So if your plant has suffered some and you have dead plant parts flopping over, they will act to protect the bottom of the plant from future frost.

Farmer Fred  6:46

I was reading this morning a garden tip from an orchardist who had an early blooming apricot. You mentioned you have an apricot tree. With more frost coming. Well, Sacramento County set the record last year, April 12. I know anybody listening to this on the podcast and you live back east you're laughing because you're not safe to what, Mother's Day?

Debbie Flower  7:11

my son's in Minnesota.

Farmer Fred  7:15

Well, that's the Fourth of July or thereabouts. But this orchardist was saying that he protects his apricot flowers during the time of the year when it's in bloom because apricot sbloom so early, there's always a chance of them being affected by a frost. You lose the flowers, you lose the fruit. What he does is, he cuts off branches of evergreens and covers the plant with them every year.

Debbie Flower

Wow, that's labor intensive.

Farmer Fred

That's labor intensive, but you're gonna get apricots, yes.

Debbie Flower

And it's cheap.

Farmer Fred

Yes. And this orchardist wrote this back in 1765.

Debbie Flower

Holy smokes.

Farmer Fred

So it was just based on his observation. But this goes back to the Farmer Fred Garden Rule number eight, “if it works for you fine. But keep an open mind. And now you just have to convince yourself to embrace the ugly.

Debbie Flower  8:06

There’s a couple of seasons of that in California: the very end of the summer. That’s when everything's dried out and dirty because we haven't had any rain and things just aren't happy. You have to embrace the ugly. My daughter in law who used to live here didn't like that time of year. And I said well, - she lived in Ohio - wherever you live, there's going to be a season that you're not going to enjoy your yard. For them, it's winter. For us, it’s that time of year and then this short period in spring when we have the ugly frost damage.

Farmer Fred  8:32

Another garden tip to save you some time and money and also build up the soil is something I've been doing the last couple of weeks. And that's shoveling chipped and shredded tree parts as mulch throughout the yard and garden. Because a mulch, put it down now, two to three or four inches deep. And it's going to improve the soil and do a lot of other things.

Debbie Flower  8:54

Right. It's doesn't prevent seeds from germinating. But when they do germinate they have only a certain amount of food in that seed in order to get up to the sun. That’s when they can make their own food. The food is in that seed, so the plant can get up to the sun and start making its own food. If it has to get through three to four inches of mulch, most annual weeds peter out before they get through the top, so you don't have weeds. I was doing this yesterday. I have mulch, chipped mulch, and it's very prevalent right now because of all the trees that are down. And the arborist companies that have been making the chips they have to pay to get rid of those chips. So if you track them down or you call the company or there is a getchipdrop.com. You get on their list, and they'll call you and say well we  have it coming on this day and you make a place for them to put it. You can get it for free. So I've been doing this for many years, and the weeds that do come up in that mulch, and mine is a couple years old in the location that I'm thinking of, the weeds are very easy to pull because the mulch is very open. So I actually took a chair and was sitting on the chair pulling weeds and then moved the chair to pull some more weeds. You know, it doesn't have to be hard. But it saves  lots of weeding time in the present and in the future.

Farmer Fred  10:12

And it saves water too, because it's insulating the soil. The water is going to stay near the roots longer, which can be a two edged sword, depending on your soil type. But also, it's like a thermal blanket for your soil to it keeps the temperature above what it would normally be in the wintertime and less what it would be in the summertime.

Debbie Flower  10:33

And the thing that holds water in your soil is the organic component of the soil. It's not the sand, silt and clay, they hold a very thin layer of water around them. But if you want a bunch of water held in your soil, you have to have organic matter in it. And that's going to come from the mulch you lay on top, you don't have to dig it in, you don't want to dig it in, it's a lot of work. And it messes up your soil structure. Just lay it on top, let nature take its course and you will have added organic matter in the soil. And that will hold water. We did a lab in soils class when I was teaching.  I had to go find clay or soil without organic matter, and dry it into nice clods. We will know what clods are. And then I got soil with organic matter in it and dried that into clods. And then the students had a metal net basket holding a clod. They lowered it into a beaker of water and just watched. What happened was: the one without organic matter, the soil just fell apart. The one with organic matter absorbed the water. The organic matter  holds the water in your soil. So you can get a lot further into summer with a lot less irrigation if you have organic matter in your soil.

Farmer Fred  11:46

How many of you have clay soil? Yes, I used to live in Herald. So I know all about clay soil. It gets cursed out a lot. But actually, Debbie - who's the president of the clay fan club - would tell you that clay is actually a good soil to have.

Debbie Flower  12:00

It is. It has great what’s called cation exchange capacity. That’s its ability to hold on to nutrients and let them give them up to the plants. But you have to know how to manage your clay soil, and that's when it becomes difficult because of complications such as walking on it, or planting into it from a container of organic media that was grown in in the nursery. So the number one thing to do to improve your clay soil is to add mulch. It'll take a year or more, but the organic material will get into the clay soil naturally, with worms and such, and it will become a much easier to manage soil, your irrigations will go deeper, you won't get so compacted. And organic matter also has a high cation exchange capacity, or ability to hold onto and release nutrients to the plants. Organic matter solves all soil problems.

Farmer Fred  12:47

Notice, too, she used the word “worms”. The mulch can encourage worms to come into your soil. That's a good thing. Worms make worm castings. Have you seen the price of worm castings lately? Go out and buy a two cubic foot bag, it'll set you back $18 or so. It's not cheap. And so why not just encourage the worms to come to your yard by adding mulch? It does improve the soil and makes it very conducive for worms to live under that mulch.

Debbie Flower  13:15

And they will find you. You don't have to find them. You can buy worms at bait shops, but only get red wigglers. But you don't have to. They'll find your place.  And the beauty is: between what you buy in the bag and what you create in your own vermicomposting system or what happens in your garden, there's a lot of live organisms, worm poop, which is what worm castings are that aren't going to survive necessarily in the bag, in the plastic bag that's put in a factory, that sits in a warehouse, it gets on a truck or whatever, and finally ends up at nurseries, in the sun somewhere. You know by the time you get it that stuff could be dead. There's other good stuff in it. But if you get it done right in your own yard, the fertility of your soil and those live organisms populations which are good for your plants are right there.

SMART POTS

Farmer Fred  14:08

You’ve heard me talk about the benefits of Smart Pots, the original, award winning fabric container. Smart pots are sold around the world and are proudly made, 100%, here in the USA.

Smart Pots is the oldest, and still the best, of all the fabric plant containers that you might find. Many of these imitators are selling cheaply made fabric pots that fall apart quickly. Not Smart Pots. There are satisfied Smart Pot owners who have been using the same Smart Pots for over a decade, actually approaching 20 years.

When you choose Smart Pot fabric containers, you know you’ll be having a superior growing experience with the best product on the market.

And your plants will appreciate Smart Pots, too. Because of the one million microscopic holes in Smart Pots, your soil will have better drainage, and the roots will be healthier. They won’t be going round and round on the outside of the soil ball, like you see in so many plastic pots. The air pruning qualities of Smart Pots create more branching of the roots, filling more of the usable soil in the Smart Pot.

Smart Pots are available at independent garden centers and select Ace and True Value hardware stores nationwide. To find a store near you, or to buy online, visit smart pots dot com slash fred. And don’t forget that slash Fred part. On that page are details about how, for a limited time, you can get 10 percent off your Smart Pot order by using the coupon code, fred. f-r-e-d, at checkout from the Smart Pot Store.

Visit smartpots.com slash fred for more information about the complete line of Smart pots lightweight, colorful, award winning fabric containers and don’t forget that special Farmer Fred 10 percent discount. Smart Pots - the original, award winning fabric planter. Go to smart pots dot com slash fred.

DAVE WILSON NURSERY

The weather may not be perfect for outdoor gardening, but it is perfect for planning your 2023 garden. Now’s the time to plan the what and the where of you want to plant for the future. To help you along, it pays to visit your favorite independently owned nursery on a regular basis throughout the fall and winter, just to see what’s new. And coming soon to that nursery near you is Dave Wilson Nursery’s excellent lineup of Farmers Market Favorites of great tasting, healthy, fruit and nut varieties. They’ll be already potted up and ready to be planted.

And we’re also talking about a great selection of antioxidant-rich fruits such as blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, Goji berries, Grapes, kiwi, mulberries, gooseberries, figs and pomegranates.

Wholesale grower Dave Wilson Nursery has probably the best lineup of great tasting fruit and nut trees of any grower in the U.S. Find out more at their website, DaveWilson dot com. While you’re there, check out all the videos they have on how to plant and grow all their delicious varieties of fruit and nut trees. Plus, at dave wilson dot com, you can find the nursery nearest you that carries Dave Wilson plants. Your harvest to better health begins at Dave Wilson dot Com.

Garden Tips, Live! Part 2

Farmer Fred

Let's get back to our conversation at the Elk Grove Garden Club. We're talking spring garden tips to save time, money and water with America's favorite retired college horticultural Professor Debbie flower.

Farmer Fred

Well, you just hit on something that maybe we can do. It’s a nice little scenic bypass that will save you money. You may be thinking about fertilizing your spring garden and one thing that we like to stress is, we think people overfertilize the garden. And a lot of people are buying soil products and fertilizers that contain mycorrhizae. Do they really? We don't know. Debbie has thoughts on that, too.

Debbie Flower  17:56

Yeah, I was really appalled at the price of fertilizer when mycorrhizae was initially put into the bags of fertilizer. The price went sky high, and it's not needed. Mycorrhizae are specific or non specific. Some have a huge plant range, meaning they'll be effective in many plants. Some have a very small plant range. So the bag will say “contains 17 billion beneficial organisms” or something like that. They're talking about mycorrhizae, which is is a fungal population. And it has been proven that most plants -  but not the brassicas, such as broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, mustard, not those guys. But almost all other plants have a relationship with this fungus, this mycorrhizae. The fungus gets nutrients from the plant through the roots. And it is so small it's stem or hyphae can travel way further away faster and into smaller soil particles thean a plant root can. And it'll pick up nutrients and bring it back in water. Everything travels through plants and fungus in water. So in travels in water to the roots. So the root gets the nutrient and the water in exchange for the sugar it has given away. And so it's a mutually beneficial relationship. But the fungus is very specific to the plant. And again, if you're going to buy it in a bag, the same thing with worm compost, is it going to be alive? Maybe, maybe not. Fungus do have a spore stage which is the resting stage. And they can survive a lot of bad environmental conditions but not forever and not too extreme. So why pay the money to buy something that number one will find your plant on its own. Like the worms, the fungus shows up. And number two, it might not even be the right one for your soil or for your plant. And number three, it might not even work.

Farmer Fred  19:54

So the good news is: if you can grow plants, if you have plants growing in soil, you have Soil mycorrhizae, and they do a great job multiplying on their own. And so adding to it is just a waste of money. Because, like Debbie says, mycorrhizae is very plant specific. And chances of that bag of soil or whatever having mycorrhizae may not be a match for your plants. Trust your plants to attract the mycorrhizae that it needs, basically. Speaking of bagged soil, let's talk about seed starting mixes.

Debbie Flower  20:30

you're very good at that.

Farmer Fred  20:31

I'm very good at that because I have two wheelbarrows and because I like to mix my own homemade seed starting mix. Why use a seed starting mix to start seeds and not just regular potting soil?

Debbie Flower  20:46

Particle size.

Farmer Fred  20:48

that's it? just particle size is the difference?

Debbie Flower  20:51

Seed starting mix is a very small particle size. Many of your seeds - if you're starting tomatoes, peppers, lettuce -  are small. They are minute seeds and if you cover a seed with too much or too large a particle, the plant can't push its way out

Farmer Fred  21:07

And that's the benefit of a seed starting mix. If you turn over a bag of seed starting mix, you'll see that the the usual ingredients are peat moss or coir, or vermiculite, perlite and maybe a bit of compost thrown in. And you can buy it or you can make it. I make mine with a 1/3 mix of each of these ingredients:  1/3 peat, 1/3 of a perlite or vermiculite, and 1/3 of a finely sifted, finished compost. Mix them all together. But what's very important is if you're using peat moss, if you're using any soil mix that has peat moss in it - and many do - it has to be thoroughly moistened.  It's like a dry sponge. If you have a totally dry sponge and you pour water on it, what does the water do? It runs right off the sponge. It takes a while for water to penetrate a sponge. The same is true with peat moss, and I liked the way that you get your peat moss wet.

Debbie Flower  22:07

At school we would do large batches because I had whole classes of students and we would throw the 1/3 peat or coir, 1/3 perlite, 1/3 vermiculite, on the concrete patio outside. And everybody had a shovel, and we do the dance. Shovel and move ahead two-step. Shovel and move ahead. Everybody's reach is different and everybody's turn is different. So the soil would get well mixed. But to wet it you can also get chemicals that are wetting agents. Or you can use a tiny bit of dish soap just a little bit in the water. And it breaks down the the surface tension of the water and allows it to go all the way around the peat moss or even the coir. Coir was a little more difficult. As far as the coconut stuff goes, you can buy it in pellets. If you're gonna use it and mix, that's probably the better way to get it. Because it's been chopped. But you have to soak it overnight. That takes a lot longer and that was just in a garbage can. Soak it overnight.

Farmer Fred  23:05

Or you take that peat moss or your seed starting mix and do this too. Commercial seed starting mixes usually have peat moss in it. Put it all in a bucket, fill the bucket with water, and go do something else in the yard. Come back a few hours later. And then take that moistened mud, if you will, and put it into containers that have drainage at the bottom and let them drain for a while. And then you can use that seed starting mix very, confidently. We were talking about this once on a podcast and you were very specific about if you added a drop of soap, which type of soap to use.

Debbie Flower  23:39

Well it needs to be soap, not detergent. And most of what we use in our kitchen to wash our dishes in the sink. Most liquid soap are a detergent. And so you want something like Ivory flakes. That’s a wonderful thing to use. Dissolve that in some water. That's just soap. There's a brand of soap you can buy it in bottles, or you can buy a cake of it. And I can't remember the name.

Farmer Fred

Castile.

Debbie Flower

Yes, thank you.

Farmer Fred  24:08

I wanted to ask you about that. I don't know what Castile soap is.

Debbie Flower  24:11

I don't know exactly what it is, either. But it's soap, okay? And so you can use some of that instead. Or you just take some of the bar and dissolve it in water. One thing I wanted to ask you about is do you add any lime to your seed starting mix?

Farmer Fred  24:24

No I don’t, because the seed starting mix is fairly neutral. And really, does a plant need lime to germinate as a seed? If I have problems in my soil and the pH isn't high enough or low enough I could add lime to sort of raise it or sulfur to lower it.

Debbie Flower  24:44

Peat moss is very acidic. Peat moss runs around a pH five.

Farmer Fred  24:48

That's why it's good for blueberries, too, if you want to grow blueberries. Now the potting mix that I would transfer those seedlings into would be what is more specific to that plant’s needs. But it's usually fairly neutral. Most plants do fine if the pH is between six and seven. You want to explain pH? No?

Debbie Flower  25:11

Do you want to hear an explanation of pH? pH is the negative concentration of the hydrogen ions, okay?  pH is a measure of alkalinity, or bit of basicness and acidity. and it runs from zero to 14, seven is neutral. A neutral pH is a good pH for plants. And I was got my bachelor's degree at Rutgers in New Jersey, where we get a lot of rain, we get 40 plus inches a year. I was taught a good pH for plants is 5.5 to 6.5. So that's on the acidic side. But that's because we were in New Jersey and the natural soil was acidic. And the plants that did well there liked it a little acidic. Here, when I came to California, that shifted up a little bit because we're a lot drier, and in drier locations, the natural pH in the soil is higher. But we're all looking right around seven or 6.5, which is just under seven. So we're looking right in the center of a neutral pH, things like lemon juice or sulfur in the garden will lower the pH. So an acidic pH is below seven. And basic or alkaline pH is above seven. The thing to understand about the the numbers one through 14 Is that when you change from one number to another, the amount of let's say alkalinity if we go from seven to eight is 10 times at eight, what it was at seven, it's 100 times at nine, what it was at seven, so each number is a logarithmic scale. If you know your math, each number goes up by a factor of 10. So  it's a powerful range, from zero to 14.

Farmer Fred  26:50

It's the Richter scale of the soil. Basically, I always like to think of pH as pipelines in the soil. And the diameter of that pipe is dependent upon the pH in the soil. The pipeline is for all the soil critters, the fungus, the bacteria, basically to get nutrients and water to the plant roots and back. They're like nature's little waiters and waitresses, delivering food, and it's easier for them if they can stand up in that pipeline and walk through to the plant. If that pipe is too small, they have to crawl at a very slow rate. So the correct pH is going to give you the widest pipeline, to get nutrients to a plant.

Debbie Flower  27:28

The biggest pH problem we see here is a soil that is not acidic enough for plants that like an acid soil. Citrus can handle a slightly acid soil. Gardenias, Azaleas, rhododendrons, and in an alkaline soil, they will have iron deficiency in their leaves. And that is a green vein and yellow between the veins. And it's on new growth, not old growth. So new growth. When the new stuff comes out, if it’s yellow, and you think “what's wrong”?, it could be just a need to  adjust your pH. If you look at fertilizers, we're talking about not fertilizing much, but if you look at fertilizers for those acid-loving plants, they will be acidic. They will contain some sulfur and they will over time - it takes time - sulfur is not an instant actor, but over time it will change the pH of your soil and allow the iron to get to the plant. It's not that the iron is not there in the soil. It's just that the iron can't get to the plant, it's tied up in the soil because of the pH.

Farmer Fred  28:21

if you are planning on growing blueberries for the first time this year, and you should, there's plenty of blueberries at local nurseries right now. They are best, because of our soil, to be grown in containers where you can modify that soil to give them the pH they want, which is around 5.5. And the larger the container, the better. I like to use cattle watering troughs. When I lived in Herald my favorite garden store was Tractor Supply Company, because I could buy some big cattle watering troughs there in Galt, and then cut holes in the bottom and then fill it with a soil mix that I knew blueberries would like. So if you're gonna grow blueberries, grow them in a container, a large container. It can be in  a half barrel or bigger. And one good formula for a soil mix for blueberries includes peat moss, that's well moistened, and what's called an R-A-C soil. That stands for a Rhododendron Azalea Camellia mix soil. That has a lower pH. You can find that at a nursery. And I will add  1/3 pathway bark, the small bark that you can buy in bags. I mix the three together, along with a handful of soil sulfur, and in  you can grow blueberries galore in that because it maintains a pH around 5.5 to six, which they really enjoy.

Farmer Fred

I guess before we run out of time here talking about more things. Yeah, we should talk about some tips for germinating seeds. I germinated pepper seeds, because it's time to start pepper seeds. And pepper seeds are notorious for taking two to three weeks for you before you see any green. You have to be very patient with pepper seeds, but I used your tip, Debbie. I soaked them in hydrogen peroxide for 10 minutes. What does that do?

Debbie Flower  29:58

I honestly don't know. I mean it sure does work. You got to be honest, when you don't know things, right? Hydrogen peroxide is h2o2. So it's water with an extra oxygen. So I assume the oxygen has some effect on the seed coat. Or maybe it oxygenates the baby plant inside. I don't know, we were having trouble at school starting them. And so I just, you know, went to plant doctor Google and looked for things.  I always love to experiment. So we tried it, and it worked very well at school. The peppers were up in seven to 10 days, which is about half the time normally

Farmer Fred  30:35

Good job! Adding bottom heat helps, too.

Debbie Flower  30:39

Bottom heat is wonderful. When I first started with bottom heat, I used the heater that was under a water bed, your old  waterbed. Anybody still have a waterbed?, I have one in the shed if you want one. But you can buy heating pads that are specific to starting plants, or probably ones that might be for your pets, they sell them for pets, too. If you have one of those laying around that might work, they're probably a little bit warmer. We're looking for something where when you touch it, you can't tell it's warm, but you plug it in. You can buy little ones, we had big ones at school, lay it down and put the trays of the seedlings on them. You can do this in a cold greenhouse or a cold frame. You only need the media warm for the seed to germinate. Seeds have all the food they need to germinate. Assuming they don't have to go, you know, six inches before they reached the sun. They just need water and oxygen and correct temperature. So those heating mats help.

Farmer Fred  31:36

How many of you have old seeds laying around the house? Maybe they're in bags or the original packet. I've gotten in the habit now dating my seed packets. So I know how old it is when I go and reopen it. And then I wonder, are those seeds still any good? You have any tips for figuring that out?

Debbie Flower  31:54

For that, too, we laid out a piece of paper towel like this, folded it in half lengthwise, lay 10 seeds on the fold, folded it over, wet it and then rolled it up like a cigar. I wouldn't do it this way, all the seeds would all fall out. But you  fold it up like a cigar, laid it in a cup with the fold up. So all your seeds should be up here. Moisten it, and then put a cap on or some sort of lid and let it sit  on a windowsill. iI doesn't have to be in the sun. Just in a warm place in your house and check it occasionally. The seed packets will tell you how long they take to germinate. It might be in five days or they should germinate in 10 days. Check at least at those times; maybe once before. So you open up the paper towel and you count the number of seeds that have germinated. And if five germinated, then you know that about half your seeds, of your old seeds, are still going to work. And if 10 germinated,  they're great.  Students who got beans got all the seeds to germinate. The reason for standing it up is that the roots will grow down. And it's much easier to see where they're coming from. If you lay it down, the roots will go all over the place. And it's hard to see which seeds they came out of. So it's hard to tell how many have actually germinated.

Farmer Fred  33:06

And not only do the roots grow in a paper towel, they might get tangled in the fibers of a paper towel.

Debbie Flower  33:13

You could still grow them, but you got to cut and plant that piece of paper towel to use to plant.

Farmer Fred  33:18

I like to use coffee filters and do the same thing because there's no fibers associated with the coffee filters and they don't get tangled up in that. But that's how you could determine whether your seeds will start or not. Now I'm really cheap. And if I see that those seeds have germinated. I'll plant them. Yeah.

Debbie Flower  33:34

Yeah. Students always wanted to Yeah, that's possible. Oh, yeah,

Farmer Fred  33:38

it works.

Debbie Flower  33:39

Be very gentle with those roots.

Farmer Fred  33:40

In fact, I did that last year with some pepper seeds. And it took about seven to 10 days in that situation for them to put out one little bitty root. But then I immediately took it and put it into a  larger container about a three inch container with seed starting mix. And lo and behold in five days, there's a plant growing. Yeah, so that works.

Farmer Fred

Speaking of caps, you used the word, cap. And I like I like what you do for your new transplants in the springtime when you set them out in the garden and there's still the threat of wind or rain or hail. By the way, we always get a hailstorm in April, it'll happen. It'll happen. How do you protect those young plants?

Debbie Flower  34:22

I use newspaper I still get a newspaper but only on Sunday. But there are all these free ones around town. Go into a coffee shop and get some. And use them if the pages are dull, whether they're colored or not. If the pages are dull, not shiny, then that's safe to use. And I just make a little cap out of it  with masking tape. It's really safe because the tape and the paper are going to disintegrate even if you forgot about it. It would all disintegrate around the plant. it would take a while though, but it protects them from some frost and protect them from the sun. You know if you start your seeds inside or even in a greenhouse, the seedlings are not subjected to outdoor conditions. The sun is stronger when you take them out of the greenhouse or out of your house, the wind is stronger, the temperatures are more extreme. So these caps give them time to to adjust to that. Also, obviously, they protect them somewhat. But when you transplant, you're always doing root damage, the only part of the root that absorbs water and nutrients is the root hairs. And they're at the tip, and they're very fine. The hairs aren't even roots themselves. They're just extensions of the cell wall of the very tip of the root, and you're going to damage them, you can't not by handling, taking the plant out of the container, you should cut the roots because they might be circling. This is really critical for woody plants. It's not as critical for herbaceous plants. Woody plants, if they're circling, those roots will become woody. And they will become basically underground branches that will choke the tree, and the tree will fall over and the winds we've been having. And so you're damaging the roots just by taking it out of the pot by doing a couple of cuts on it by putting in the soil. And so it takes about three days for new root hairs to form. So in those three days, for those plants, it's just i like you not getting food for three days. The plants are just sitting there. So it needs protection from the sun, from the wind, from the critters, and a little cap of newspaper works great.

Farmer Fred  36:24

And if it blows away, no big deal.

Debbie Flower  36:26

Well, it'll decompose. You're not contaminating, you're not polluting your neighborhood.

Farmer Fred  36:31

Let's put Susan Muckey to work and she will  take the microphone out to the people here to ask questions. We are opening the floor up to questions, because we are both confident that we'll give you an answer that sounds believable. And maybe to urge you to ask questions, I have an incentive for you. And I'll explain that in a minute. Go ahead, Susan.

Unknown Speaker 1  36:55

All right. Because of storm damage, I have about 100 year supply of eucalyptus wood chips. So can I use those around my roses? Can I use them in a vegetable garden? I've heard that they will kind of poison things. That the oils will get into the soil and sort of permanently prevent things from growing.

Debbie Flower  37:14

When I was at UC Davis getting my master's degree, there was a field full of eucalyptus. They were trying to figure out what you can do with Eucalyptus in California back then. And nothing grew under them. And the owls would sit up in the trees and there would be owl pellets below, which made it a very interesting place to go. And then they took them down and chipped them and use that as mulch. everywhere on campus. Nothing came up except baby Eucalyptus. There's been some work done by Linda Chalker-Scott at Washington State University, she writes the garden myths books (“The Informed Gardener” series). I don't know if any of you are familiar with them.

Farmer Fred  37:49

And she is also on Facebook, on the Garden Professors page.

Debbie Flower  37:53

Right.  And they did actual research on Eucalyptus. And so there's no evidence that it permanently damages the soil. It acts as a pre emergent immediately. So it prevents seeds that are baby seeds. Preemergents work by killing seedlings. The seeds germinate, but then  they're killed. In the vegetable garden, I would not use the wood. If I had a lot of leaves. I would try it in part of the vegetable garden. What do you think about eucalyptus leaves in the vegetable garden?

Farmer Fred  38:28

I think they're fine under eucalyptus trees and I would use them for walkways. I would use them wherever you're growing hardwood plants. Roses would be fine. I have the same issue. Except it's a cedar tree. My neighbor's 60 foot Deodar cedar fell in my backyard. But I've been reading warnings online about  not using cedar chips for mulch because it'll dissuade the beneficial insects. People mention this online. And this is the other thing you should get into a habit, too.  If you go searching for gardening information online, is to narrow your search terms. Let's say you want to find out information about mulch. Well, just don't put in “mulch”. Put in “mulch UC”, for the University of California,  or “mulch .edu”. That will bring up a whole host of researched information on whatever topic you're looking for. So this information about don't use cedar chips, because it'll dissuade not only the bad insects but the beneficials, was coming from arborists and pest control people. But I couldn't find anything from a university or a study that showed that cedar chips dissuade beneficial insects. I'm a little confused about it. But then I thought about it. How did this get rumor started? And I'm thinking it probably started with grandma's cedar chest. A cedar chest dissuades moths. Yeah, you might have one of those. Moths stay away. Your clothes aren't gonna get chewed up. And they transferred that thought to the outdoors. But I think outdoors, there's more external influences that mitigates that repulsion, if you will.

Debbie Flower  40:05

And we're also doing it as mulch a layer on top of the soil. And the only place that there's interaction is right where it touches the soil. And typically things start to break down pretty quickly, right there.

Farmer Fred  40:15

One habit I've gotten into, like Debbie was alluding to, is using a hardwood mulch like chipped and shredded tree parts beneath your hardwood plants, your shrubs and your trees. For the vegetable garden, I like to use worm castings or some sort of green waste-based compost.

Debbie Flower  40:36

That includes leaves and that to a point. Yeah, but we're wary of the eucalyptus leaves.

Farmer Fred  40:41

Well, I know they've done tests on eucalyptus leaves, and it does not dissuade growth.

Debbie Flower  40:45

All the evidence, all the research says it's fine.

Farmer Fred  40:49

But at what point in the decomposition of a leaf does a turn from green material to brown material?

Debbie Flower  40:54

If it falls off the tree as brown, then it's brown. So it's carbon. If it falls off the tree as green, then it's green, which is the nitrogen component, because if it's brown, the plant actually reabsorbed the new nitrogen back into the plant before it creates an abscission layer, which is a layer of cells that allow the leaf to cleanly fall off. So the green is gone. But if the tree fell and the leaves are green, there's nitrogen in those leaves.

Farmer Fred  41:21

I mentioned there was an incentive for asking questions. So everybody who asks a question, as long as the supply lasts, we have for them a University of California Cooperative Extension Master Gardener calendar and gardening guide. But it is last years. That’s the bad news. It is 2022. But there's garden planting charts and helpful information in it that is invaluable any year there is. So congratulations on that.

Unknown Speaker 2  41:45

I actually have two questions. I have large Iris beds. And with the recent rains, the weeds are crazy. And it's not something you can go in and hoe out any of it. I've never put wood chips or anything in the soil around the irises. Nor on top of the irises because they're so prone to rot. Can you use wood chips there?

Debbie Flower  42:10

Well, you don't want to cover the rhizome. If you cover the rhizome, they will never bloom around that. Yes, use it between the plants around the rhizomes but don't cover the rhizomes.

Farmer Fred  42:19

How far apart would you keep the mulch away from the rhizome?

Debbie Flower  42:22

You just don't want to cover it.

Farmer Fred  42:24

Okay. All right. So, generally good advice, anytime you mulch is keep it away from the trunk of the plant to avoid any sort of rot issues.

Unknown Speaker  42:43

On an earlier topic, I wasn’t clear. We're talking about using branches in an apricot tree to protect them in freezing weather.

Farmer Fred  42:51

Yeah, basically just laying them in the tree, yes, you will lose some flowers. But in this gentleman's estimation, from 1785, or whenever it was, you do lose a few flowers, but you get a lot of fruit as opposed to not covering it, and you don't get any fruit.

Debbie Flower  43:09

And if you were to use a cloth, then you're excluding your pollinators, so you're not going to get any fruit either. There's some more questions back there. They're feeling left out. I think.

Unknown Speaker 3  43:20

I have a few questions. My whole yard  is covered with shredded cedar. And I bought it because it would keep away the insects and stuff. So does that actually happen? Does it actually not harm the plants? Because I mean, my yard is growing really well.

Debbie Flower  43:39

Right cedar chips doesn't harm the plant.

Farmer Fred  43:42

Do you see any beneficial insects? Do you see the hoverflies? Or the bees?

Unknown Speaker 3

Yes, bees.

Debbie Flower  43:49

And the place you're gonna see them is on the flowers. Yeah, on the plants.

Unknown Speaker 3  43:52

So then I had another question. In the winter, we grow vegetables in grow boxes. So this year,  we are growing the same plants, but they're not growing the same way. So all the bok choy is growing profusely. But my cauliflower is not growing as much. The heads aren't growing, but it's called a  cheddar. They are really teeny, and the brussels sprouts aren't growing. So do you have any ideas about what's going on there?

Farmer Fred  44:24

Yeah, you shouldn't be growing cauliflower and brussel sprouts here. Only because  they're hard to grow. That's a big flower you're trying to produce in the winter.

Unknown Speaker 3  44:32

You know, every year when I grow cauliflower, they are huge.

Debbie Flower  44:38

I wonder about restocking the soil in the bed. And I wrestle with this, with nutrients. Worm castings supply mostly the micronutrients. Chicken manure, if it’s composted in place. Don't ever use fresh chicken manure, even if it's dried out and been dried for years and years and years, it's way too strong. It burns everything. My mother emptied her father's chicken coop, which was our play house for years. One of them there were several and she brought that chicken manure home, and even though it had been dried for decades, it burned everything in the yard. So what do you do? You've thrown it the compost. You mix it with something else or you compost  it. It is best composted alone.

Farmer Fred  45:22

How long do you leave it in compost?

Debbie Flower  45:23

A season. It's nitrogen, and nitrogen moves very quickly with water. So you could just if you needed it immediately, you could just flush it with water. We don't have that kind of water in California to waste it like that. But you could do that.

Farmer Fred  45:36

We have time for one more question and Sue will run over with a microphone.

Unknown Speaker 4  45:41

When planting seeds in a seed tray with the mat, do you put the cover on? Do you absolutely need a light over it?

Farmer Fred  45:49

No light needed for seeds.

Debbie Flower  45:51

Seed germination can happen in the dark. it's when  they’re up and growing that you need strong light and wind. Once they have germinated.  The wind moves the plants and that creates strength. You know, you go to the gym to lift weights to strengthen your arm. So the wind moves the stem and that strengthens the stem. And the strong light helps keep them sturdier, shorter, fatter. But to just germinate seeds? No. So it's  a trick. I have a greenhouse now, but when I didn't, I had a table in front of a west facing window. I had eyebolts in the ceiling, and I hung up a fluorescent light fixture. And I think I had heat pads, I had a fan, it was in the guest room, there was a fan on the guest bed and I would let them all germinate, then take the caps off as soon as they're up. The cap should come off, and then rearrange them. So you might start in the individual cells rather than six packs or big trays. So rearrange the seedlings. So the ones that have germinated are in one part, the ones that hadn't could still be covered in the other part. And then I'd hang the light crooked, depending on who's tallest. So the tall ones would be under the high portion of the light. fixture The short ones would be under the low portion of the light and I’d run the fan. It was an oscillating fan on a timer. Yeah, you didn't want to visit me at seed starting time.

Farmer Fred  47:17

How long would you run the fan?

Debbie Flower  47:19

I ran it about a half hour, it should be at least 10 minutes. Each plant should be hit by the wind for 10 minutes. And I wanted to make sure they got it. So I ran it for about a half hour.

Farmer Fred  47:27

At what stage of the plant's development. Would you start that process? Would you do it if it's at the cotyledon stage when those initial seed leaves come out?

Debbie Flower  47:36

Yes. As soon as they're out of the ground. Okay.

Susan Muckey  47:39

I've got one more question here.

Unknown Speaker 5  47:44

I have a very small garden and it always did really good. And a couple of years ago, I bought new soil and put it on top and nothing grew. nothing. I found Grubs. that’s what Google said it was. they looked like grubs. How do you get rid of grubs?

Farmer Fred  47:59

Birds like them. And what I do if I'm digging and I find grubs, I'll just toss them over my shoulder. The birds will find them. And I thought well, the grubs will  be back next year. They weren't back next year. It was like the birds figured out that there are grubs in my soil. And it's not unusual for me to look out the kitchen window at the backyard and see a flock of Robins all in one raised bed. But they're not picking up plants. They're in the soil they're digging. So they're going after those grubs.

Debbie Flower  48:28

The other thing to do, to attract those birds, is put something tall nearby. It could just be a stake. You don't want them too close together because the birds need to fly but birds will stand on that and I don't know if they hear them or see them or what. They have some pretty great senses and they will find the grubs. They'll stand on that stake and then they'll find the grubs and dig them out.

Farmer Fred  48:48

We are out of time, Debbie. These people want to eat. Thank you for inviting us to the Elk Grove Garden Club. We appreciate it, thank you!

BEYOND THE GARDEN BASICS NEWSLETTER

Farmer Fred  49:12

For many gardeners, especially in USDA Zones 8 and 9, mid-winter can be a tricky time. “Tricky” in that really nice sunny, mild days this time of year can encourage a plant to put on a bloom. Early blooming fruit trees, such as apricots and almonds come to mind. Some unpruned roses, as well. But how often is that late January, early February fling of nice days followed by three days in a row of sub-32 degree mornings? And you know what happens.

And how many of us have been fooled by having this spate of mild weather continue, with no more frosts? Get a few years in a row of nice winter temperatures, we get the urge to stretch our botanical boundaries and put in plants that may be better suited for the next zone up. For instance, here in USDA Zone 9, we might have been tempted with the apparent success over a few years of winter survival and growth of Zone 10 tropical plants here. Only to see a freeze knock them back. What’s a gardener to do?

a) Remove all plants that look frostbitten?

b) Prune away all freeze-damaged plant parts?

c) Purchase and plant again this month those same varieties of shrubs, perennials and annuals?

d) Water the garden, even if the plants resemble toast?

e) Or, Fight the urge to prune and plant by staying indoors, next to the emanating heat of the television or computer monitor.

We have the answers in today’s Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter. For current newsletter subscribers, look for the “What to Do About Freeze Damaged Plants” in the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter in your email, it’s probably waiting for you now.  Or, you can start a subscription, it’s free!  Find the link to the newsletter in today’s show notes or sign up at the newsletter link at our homepage, gardenbasics dot net.

Farmer Fred  51:21

The Garden Basics With Farmer Fred podcast comes out once a week, on Fridays. Plus the newsletter podcast, that comes with the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, continues, also released on Fridays. Both are free and are brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. The Garden Basics podcast is available wherever podcasts are handed out, and that includes our home page, Garden Basics dot net. , where you can also sign up for the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter and podcast. That’s Garden Basics dot net. or use the links in today’s show notes.  And thank you so much for listening.