253 Garden Tips to Save Time, Money, Water. Live!

Show Transcript

GB 253 TRANSCRIPT Garden Tips, Live, at the Elk Grove Garden Club

Farmer Fred  0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

What should you do when an unexpected heavy frost or freeze damages your plants? How can mulch save you water? Are those extra ingredients in fertilizers and potting soils worth the expense? What’s a good soil recipe for starting seeds? What’s a good soil mix for growing blueberries? Why is soil pH important? How can you get seeds to germinate more quickly? How can you tell if those old seeds are any good? What is an inexpensive way to protect young plants in the garden in early spring? Are eucalyptus or cedar wood chips ok to use in the garden? How do you mulch around irises? Why do you need a fan blowing on young indoor seedlings? How do you control soil grubs?

Wow, that a lot of questions. And America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, and I, provide the answers (or opinions) at this, a live mid-February recording at the Elk Grove California Garden Club. A splendid time was had by all.  It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, Live (sort of) brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

Susan Muckey  1:47

A lot of you have probably heard Farmer Fred on the radio and imagine what he looks like. Well, now you know. Anyway, today, we are honored to have two very special guests. Not only one Master Gardener, but two Master Gardeners to come and educate us, help educate us. Fred Hoffman, aka Farmer Fred, has been a Master Gardener for many, many years (since 1982). He started out in radio a long time ago (when Nixon was President). And he was on the radio in college, and he has done things besides gardening shows. He was a DJ for many, many types of music. And I think people that are on radio have that radio kind of voice. That radio voice, doesn't matter what you're talking about. It just sounds good.

Our other speaker is Debbie Flower. And Debbie Flower is a retired professor of horticulture. And she taught for many, many years at American River College. I was reading up on some things about her. And I think the most exciting thing about being a teacher is when you can inspire a love of what you're teaching to other students. And that was pretty much what I read about. That Debbie inspired love of plants and horticulture to her students. So without further ado, our very honored guests, Fred and Debby.

Farmer Fred  3:33

Well, thank you very much. I think you can hear me without a microphone. And actually, Susan, I'm gonna put you to work later on during the question portion of our program. You could walk around with the microphone and get the questions from the people so they don't have to stand up and shout. Thank you. We are recording this for the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, and incredibly popular podcast, much to my surprise. I’ve been doing it since April of 2020. And it has grown by leaps and bounds. And for a very good reason. This woman here has been on that podcast since the inception. Debbie Flower has taught at local colleges, such as American River College, Sierra College, at Folsom Lake College. Where else?

Debbie Flower  4:19

A place called the Skills and Business Education Center, which is part of the Sac City School District. They had a work program that I taught there.

Farmer Fred  4:25

She has a heck of a big fan club of former students who just love her. And she's very gracious to join us here today. Thank you. Oh, by the way, if you don't know where the podcast is, but you know how to find a website, the website is gardenbasics.net

The alleged topic we're here to talk about today is “spring garden tips to save time, money and water”. And there are a lot of ways you can save time, money and water and we will just go through some of them.

Any of you lose plants in the last couple of weeks because of cold mornings? Yeah. You think you've lost plants. They look sad. My best friend in the backyard, Chuck, looks sad. It's a Brugmansia, Charles Grimaldi. And Chuck is looking real sad. And that's what happens when you try to grow plants that are out side of your USDA zone. You look at a Brugmansia, what is that, about a USDA Zone 10 plant? It's semi tropical. And here, as long as the weather stays above 30, the brugmansia will do fine. But once it gets down into the mid 20s, like it did a couple of weeks ago, we are starting to see some very sad plants.

Debbie Flower  5:33

And mine it started blooming, my Charles Grimaldi. Was yours in bloom?

Farmer Fred  5:37

Oh, yeah. It flowered because we had warm weather.

Debbie Flower  5:40

Oh, I love it. I love it. And then you go out the next day, and it's sad.

Farmer Fred  5:42

So what would you do to save time in this regard?

Debbie Flower  5:46

I wouldn't touch it. The dead parts on top are going to protect what's below. So if there's more cold coming, and Fred was telling me the 50-50 date for in Sacramento for the chance of frost being 50%, is February 15. I think of March 15 or March 17. Because that's St. Patrick's Day. And it's always easy to remember holidays as a date when we have our average last frost. But Fred was also telling me that we had a frost April 12 of last year. So it's unpredictable. But what happens at night? The sun goes down. And if it's a clear night, the heat from the earth starts coming up and it just keeps on going. If you put something in its way, a porch roof, some frost cloth or dead plant parts, then it traps that heat underneath whatever it is: the porch roof, the dead plant parts. So if your plant has suffered some and you have dead plant parts flopping over, they will act to protect the bottom of the plant from future frost.

Farmer Fred  6:46

I was reading this morning a garden tip from an orchardist who had an early blooming apricot. You mentioned you have an apricot tree. With more frost coming. Well, Sacramento County set the record last year, April 12. I know anybody listening to this on the podcast and you live back east you're laughing because you're not safe to what, Mother's Day?

Debbie Flower  7:11

my son's in Minnesota.

Farmer Fred  7:15

Well, that's the Fourth of July or thereabouts. But this orchardist was saying that he protects his apricot flowers during the time of the year when it's in bloom because apricot sbloom so early, there's always a chance of them being affected by a frost. You lose the flowers, you lose the fruit. What he does is, he cuts off branches of evergreens and covers the plant with them every year.

Debbie Flower

Wow, that's labor intensive.

Farmer Fred

That's labor intensive, but you're gonna get apricots, yes.

Debbie Flower

And it's cheap.

Farmer Fred

Yes. And this orchardist wrote this back in 1765.

Debbie Flower

Holy smokes.

Farmer Fred

So it was just based on his observation. But this goes back to the Farmer Fred Garden Rule number eight, “if it works for you fine. But keep an open mind. And now you just have to convince yourself to embrace the ugly.

Debbie Flower  8:06

There’s a couple of seasons of that in California: the very end of the summer. That’s when everything's dried out and dirty because we haven't had any rain and things just aren't happy. You have to embrace the ugly. My daughter in law who used to live here didn't like that time of year. And I said well, - she lived in Ohio - wherever you live, there's going to be a season that you're not going to enjoy your yard. For them, it's winter. For us, it’s that time of year and then this short period in spring when we have the ugly frost damage.

Farmer Fred  8:32

Another garden tip to save you some time and money and also build up the soil is something I've been doing the last couple of weeks. And that's shoveling chipped and shredded tree parts as mulch throughout the yard and garden. Because a mulch, put it down now, two to three or four inches deep. And it's going to improve the soil and do a lot of other things.

Debbie Flower  8:54

Right. It's doesn't prevent seeds from germinating. But when they do germinate they have only a certain amount of food in that seed in order to get up to the sun. That’s when they can make their own food. The food is in that seed, so the plant can get up to the sun and start making its own food. If it has to get through three to four inches of mulch, most annual weeds peter out before they get through the top, so you don't have weeds. I was doing this yesterday. I have mulch, chipped mulch, and it's very prevalent right now because of all the trees that are down. And the arborist companies that have been making the chips they have to pay to get rid of those chips. So if you track them down or you call the company or there is a getchipdrop.com. You get on their list, and they'll call you and say well we  have it coming on this day and you make a place for them to put it. You can get it for free. So I've been doing this for many years, and the weeds that do come up in that mulch, and mine is a couple years old in the location that I'm thinking of, the weeds are very easy to pull because the mulch is very open. So I actually took a chair and was sitting on the chair pulling weeds and then moved the chair to pull some more weeds. You know, it doesn't have to be hard. But it saves  lots of weeding time in the present and in the future.

Farmer Fred  10:12

And it saves water too, because it's insulating the soil. The water is going to stay near the roots longer, which can be a two edged sword, depending on your soil type. But also, it's like a thermal blanket for your soil to it keeps the temperature above what it would normally be in the wintertime and less what it would be in the summertime.

Debbie Flower  10:33

And the thing that holds water in your soil is the organic component of the soil. It's not the sand, silt and clay, they hold a very thin layer of water around them. But if you want a bunch of water held in your soil, you have to have organic matter in it. And that's going to come from the mulch you lay on top, you don't have to dig it in, you don't want to dig it in, it's a lot of work. And it messes up your soil structure. Just lay it on top, let nature take its course and you will have added organic matter in the soil. And that will hold water. We did a lab in soils class when I was teaching.  I had to go find clay or soil without organic matter, and dry it into nice clods. We will know what clods are. And then I got soil with organic matter in it and dried that into clods. And then the students had a metal net basket holding a clod. They lowered it into a beaker of water and just watched. What happened was: the one without organic matter, the soil just fell apart. The one with organic matter absorbed the water. The organic matter  holds the water in your soil. So you can get a lot further into summer with a lot less irrigation if you have organic matter in your soil.

Farmer Fred  11:46

How many of you have clay soil? Yes, I used to live in Herald. So I know all about clay soil. It gets cursed out a lot. But actually, Debbie - who's the president of the clay fan club - would tell you that clay is actually a good soil to have.

Debbie Flower  12:00

It is. It has great what’s called cation exchange capacity. That’s its ability to hold on to nutrients and let them give them up to the plants. But you have to know how to manage your clay soil, and that's when it becomes difficult because of complications such as walking on it, or planting into it from a container of organic media that was grown in in the nursery. So the number one thing to do to improve your clay soil is to add mulch. It'll take a year or more, but the organic material will get into the clay soil naturally, with worms and such, and it will become a much easier to manage soil, your irrigations will go deeper, you won't get so compacted. And organic matter also has a high cation exchange capacity, or ability to hold onto and release nutrients to the plants. Organic matter solves all soil problems.

Farmer Fred  12:47

Notice, too, she used the word “worms”. The mulch can encourage worms to come into your soil. That's a good thing. Worms make worm castings. Have you seen the price of worm castings lately? Go out and buy a two cubic foot bag, it'll set you back $18 or so. It's not cheap. And so why not just encourage the worms to come to your yard by adding mulch? It does improve the soil and makes it very conducive for worms to live under that mulch.

Debbie Flower  13:15

And they will find you. You don't have to find them. You can buy worms at bait shops, but only get red wigglers. But you don't have to. They'll find your place.  And the beauty is: between what you buy in the bag and what you create in your own vermicomposting system or what happens in your garden, there's a lot of live organisms, worm poop, which is what worm castings are that aren't going to survive necessarily in the bag, in the plastic bag that's put in a factory, that sits in a warehouse, it gets on a truck or whatever, and finally ends up at nurseries, in the sun somewhere. You know by the time you get it that stuff could be dead. There's other good stuff in it. But if you get it done right in your own yard, the fertility of your soil and those live organisms populations which are good for your plants are right there.

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DAVE WILSON NURSERY

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Garden Tips, Live! Part 2

Farmer Fred

Let's get back to our conversation at the Elk Grove Garden Club. We're talking spring garden tips to save time, money and water with America's favorite retired college horticultural Professor Debbie flower.

Farmer Fred

Well, you just hit on something that maybe we can do. It’s a nice little scenic bypass that will save you money. You may be thinking about fertilizing your spring garden and one thing that we like to stress is, we think people overfertilize the garden. And a lot of people are buying soil products and fertilizers that contain mycorrhizae. Do they really? We don't know. Debbie has thoughts on that, too.

Debbie Flower  17:56

Yeah, I was really appalled at the price of fertilizer when mycorrhizae was initially put into the bags of fertilizer. The price went sky high, and it's not needed. Mycorrhizae are specific or non specific. Some have a huge plant range, meaning they'll be effective in many plants. Some have a very small plant range. So the bag will say “contains 17 billion beneficial organisms” or something like that. They're talking about mycorrhizae, which is is a fungal population. And it has been proven that most plants -  but not the brassicas, such as broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, mustard, not those guys. But almost all other plants have a relationship with this fungus, this mycorrhizae. The fungus gets nutrients from the plant through the roots. And it is so small it's stem or hyphae can travel way further away faster and into smaller soil particles thean a plant root can. And it'll pick up nutrients and bring it back in water. Everything travels through plants and fungus in water. So in travels in water to the roots. So the root gets the nutrient and the water in exchange for the sugar it has given away. And so it's a mutually beneficial relationship. But the fungus is very specific to the plant. And again, if you're going to buy it in a bag, the same thing with worm compost, is it going to be alive? Maybe, maybe not. Fungus do have a spore stage which is the resting stage. And they can survive a lot of bad environmental conditions but not forever and not too extreme. So why pay the money to buy something that number one will find your plant on its own. Like the worms, the fungus shows up. And number two, it might not even be the right one for your soil or for your plant. And number three, it might not even work.

Farmer Fred  19:54

So the good news is: if you can grow plants, if you have plants growing in soil, you have Soil mycorrhizae, and they do a great job multiplying on their own. And so adding to it is just a waste of money. Because, like Debbie says, mycorrhizae is very plant specific. And chances of that bag of soil or whatever having mycorrhizae may not be a match for your plants. Trust your plants to attract the mycorrhizae that it needs, basically. Speaking of bagged soil, let's talk about seed starting mixes.

Debbie Flower  20:30

you're very good at that.

Farmer Fred  20:31

I'm very good at that because I have two wheelbarrows and because I like to mix my own homemade seed starting mix. Why use a seed starting mix to start seeds and not just regular potting soil?

Debbie Flower  20:46

Particle size.

Farmer Fred  20:48

that's it? just particle size is the difference?

Debbie Flower  20:51

Seed starting mix is a very small particle size. Many of your seeds - if you're starting tomatoes, peppers, lettuce -  are small. They are minute seeds and if you cover a seed with too much or too large a particle, the plant can't push its way out

Farmer Fred  21:07

And that's the benefit of a seed starting mix. If you turn over a bag of seed starting mix, you'll see that the the usual ingredients are peat moss or coir, or vermiculite, perlite and maybe a bit of compost thrown in. And you can buy it or you can make it. I make mine with a 1/3 mix of each of these ingredients:  1/3 peat, 1/3 of a perlite or vermiculite, and 1/3 of a finely sifted, finished compost. Mix them all together. But what's very important is if you're using peat moss, if you're using any soil mix that has peat moss in it - and many do - it has to be thoroughly moistened.  It's like a dry sponge. If you have a totally dry sponge and you pour water on it, what does the water do? It runs right off the sponge. It takes a while for water to penetrate a sponge. The same is true with peat moss, and I liked the way that you get your peat moss wet.

Debbie Flower  22:07

At school we would do large batches because I had whole classes of students and we would throw the 1/3 peat or coir, 1/3 perlite, 1/3 vermiculite, on the concrete patio outside. And everybody had a shovel, and we do the dance. Shovel and move ahead two-step. Shovel and move ahead. Everybody's reach is different and everybody's turn is different. So the soil would get well mixed. But to wet it you can also get chemicals that are wetting agents. Or you can use a tiny bit of dish soap just a little bit in the water. And it breaks down the the surface tension of the water and allows it to go all the way around the peat moss or even the coir. Coir was a little more difficult. As far as the coconut stuff goes, you can buy it in pellets. If you're gonna use it and mix, that's probably the better way to get it. Because it's been chopped. But you have to soak it overnight. That takes a lot longer and that was just in a garbage can. Soak it overnight.

Farmer Fred  23:05

Or you take that peat moss or your seed starting mix and do this too. Commercial seed starting mixes usually have peat moss in it. Put it all in a bucket, fill the bucket with water, and go do something else in the yard. Come back a few hours later. And then take that moistened mud, if you will, and put it into containers that have drainage at the bottom and let them drain for a while. And then you can use that seed starting mix very, confidently. We were talking about this once on a podcast and you were very specific about if you added a drop of soap, which type of soap to use.

Debbie Flower  23:39

Well it needs to be soap, not detergent. And most of what we use in our kitchen to wash our dishes in the sink. Most liquid soap are a detergent. And so you want something like Ivory flakes. That’s a wonderful thing to use. Dissolve that in some water. That's just soap. There's a brand of soap you can buy it in bottles, or you can buy a cake of it. And I can't remember the name.

Farmer Fred

Castile.

Debbie Flower

Yes, thank you.

Farmer Fred  24:08

I wanted to ask you about that. I don't know what Castile soap is.

Debbie Flower  24:11

I don't know exactly what it is, either. But it's soap, okay? And so you can use some of that instead. Or you just take some of the bar and dissolve it in water. One thing I wanted to ask you about is do you add any lime to your seed starting mix?

Farmer Fred  24:24

No I don’t, because the seed starting mix is fairly neutral. And really, does a plant need lime to germinate as a seed? If I have problems in my soil and the pH isn't high enough or low enough I could add lime to sort of raise it or sulfur to lower it.

Debbie Flower  24:44

Peat moss is very acidic. Peat moss runs around a pH five.

Farmer Fred  24:48

That's why it's good for blueberries, too, if you want to grow blueberries. Now the potting mix that I would transfer those seedlings into would be what is more specific to that plant’s needs. But it's usually fairly neutral. Most plants do fine if the pH is between six and seven. You want to explain pH? No?

Debbie Flower  25:11

Do you want to hear an explanation of pH? pH is the negative concentration of the hydrogen ions, okay?  pH is a measure of alkalinity, or bit of basicness and acidity. and it runs from zero to 14, seven is neutral. A neutral pH is a good pH for plants. And I was got my bachelor's degree at Rutgers in New Jersey, where we get a lot of rain, we get 40 plus inches a year. I was taught a good pH for plants is 5.5 to 6.5. So that's on the acidic side. But that's because we were in New Jersey and the natural soil was acidic. And the plants that did well there liked it a little acidic. Here, when I came to California, that shifted up a little bit because we're a lot drier, and in drier locations, the natural pH in the soil is higher. But we're all looking right around seven or 6.5, which is just under seven. So we're looking right in the center of a neutral pH, things like lemon juice or sulfur in the garden will lower the pH. So an acidic pH is below seven. And basic or alkaline pH is above seven. The thing to understand about the the numbers one through 14 Is that when you change from one number to another, the amount of let's say alkalinity if we go from seven to eight is 10 times at eight, what it was at seven, it's 100 times at nine, what it was at seven, so each number is a logarithmic scale. If you know your math, each number goes up by a factor of 10. So  it's a powerful range, from zero to 14.

Farmer Fred  26:50

It's the Richter scale of the soil. Basically, I always like to think of pH as pipelines in the soil. And the diameter of that pipe is dependent upon the pH in the soil. The pipeline is for all the soil critters, the fungus, the bacteria, basically to get nutrients and water to the plant roots and back. They're like nature's little waiters and waitresses, delivering food, and it's easier for them if they can stand up in that pipeline and walk through to the plant. If that pipe is too small, they have to crawl at a very slow rate. So the correct pH is going to give you the widest pipeline, to get nutrients to a plant.

Debbie Flower  27:28

The biggest pH problem we see here is a soil that is not acidic enough for plants that like an acid soil. Citrus can handle a slightly acid soil. Gardenias, Azaleas, rhododendrons, and in an alkaline soil, they will have iron deficiency in their leaves. And that is a green vein and yellow between the veins. And it's on new growth, not old growth. So new growth. When the new stuff comes out, if it’s yellow, and you think “what's wrong”?, it could be just a need to  adjust your pH. If you look at fertilizers, we're talking about not fertilizing much, but if you look at fertilizers for those acid-loving plants, they will be acidic. They will contain some sulfur and they will over time - it takes time - sulfur is not an instant actor, but over time it will change the pH of your soil and allow the iron to get to the plant. It's not that the iron is not there in the soil. It's just that the iron can't get to the plant, it's tied up in the soil because of the pH.

Farmer Fred  28:21

if you are planning on growing blueberries for the first time this year, and you should, there's plenty of blueberries at local nurseries right now. They are best, because of our soil, to be grown in containers where you can modify that soil to give them the pH they want, which is around 5.5. And the larger the container, the better. I like to use cattle watering troughs. When I lived in Herald my favorite garden store was Tractor Supply Company, because I could buy some big cattle watering troughs there in Galt, and then cut holes in the bottom and then fill it with a soil mix that I knew blueberries would like. So if you're gonna grow blueberries, grow them in a container, a large container. It can be in  a half barrel or bigger. And one good formula for a soil mix for blueberries includes peat moss, that's well moistened, and what's called an R-A-C soil. That stands for a Rhododendron Azalea Camellia mix soil. That has a lower pH. You can find that at a nursery. And I will add  1/3 pathway bark, the small bark that you can buy in bags. I mix the three together, along with a handful of soil sulfur, and in  you can grow blueberries galore in that because it maintains a pH around 5.5 to six, which they really enjoy.

Farmer Fred

I guess before we run out of time here talking about more things. Yeah, we should talk about some tips for germinating seeds. I germinated pepper seeds, because it's time to start pepper seeds. And pepper seeds are notorious for taking two to three weeks for you before you see any green. You have to be very patient with pepper seeds, but I used your tip, Debbie. I soaked them in hydrogen peroxide for 10 minutes. What does that do?

Debbie Flower  29:58

I honestly don't know. I mean it sure does work. You got to be honest, when you don't know things, right? Hydrogen peroxide is h2o2. So it's water with an extra oxygen. So I assume the oxygen has some effect on the seed coat. Or maybe it oxygenates the baby plant inside. I don't know, we were having trouble at school starting them. And so I just, you know, went to plant doctor Google and looked for things.  I always love to experiment. So we tried it, and it worked very well at school. The peppers were up in seven to 10 days, which is about half the time normally

Farmer Fred  30:35

Good job! Adding bottom heat helps, too.

Debbie Flower  30:39

Bottom heat is wonderful. When I first started with bottom heat, I used the heater that was under a water bed, your old  waterbed. Anybody still have a waterbed?, I have one in the shed if you want one. But you can buy heating pads that are specific to starting plants, or probably ones that might be for your pets, they sell them for pets, too. If you have one of those laying around that might work, they're probably a little bit warmer. We're looking for something where when you touch it, you can't tell it's warm, but you plug it in. You can buy little ones, we had big ones at scho