409 Bird-Friendly Gardening

Show Transcript

409 bird Friendly gardening TRANSCRIPT

BIRD-FRIENDLY GARDENING

Farmer Fred:

Today we talk with Jen McGuinness, she’s the author and photographer of the book, “Bird-Friendly Gardening.” We cover topics such as the best range of plant sizes for a  bird habitat, the value of a backyard water feature to attract birds, birds and window collisions - and how to prevent them,  the value of native plants in supporting bird populations, and also tips for doing your own bird photography.

Today, it’s Episode 409,  Bird Friendly Gardening. We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios, here in the beautiful abutilon jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. Let’s go!

Farmer Fred:

 Providing food, nesting habit, water, and a toxin-free environment for the thousands of bird species that call North America home is more important than ever.

 Hundreds of these bird species are in population decline or at risk of extinction. Whether they're permanent residents, seasonal guests, or maybe they're just passing through during migration, providing birds with the resources they need in a home-based habitat garden is an important part of the solution no matter where in North America you might call home. 

And a lot of it is detailed right here in this book, “Bird-Friendly Gardening”. It's by garden writer Jen McGuinness, who is also the author of another garden book called Microfood Gardening, and she's the power behind the force of the website FrauZinnie.com… that’s FrauZinnie as in “Mrs. Zinnia”.  

BIRD PHOTOGRAPHY TIPS

Farmer Fred:

Jen McGuinness champions organic and wildlife friendly gardening. She brings a background in journalism, communications and storytelling to her work, and she’s a photographer, too. And Jen was telling me that she was just out taking pictures of birds. I would like to start with that. How do you take pictures of birds, Jen?

Jen McGuinness:

 Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on your show. And yeah, I do have a lot of birds that come to my garden because I've made it, bird friendly. So I do sit out there. I don't quite sit inside like one of those hides, but I will kind of blend in with the shrubbery and just wait out certain birds. There's a good variety that come here in my Connecticut garden to visit. Today it was the coneflowers. they were like the most popular. The goldfinch were eating those and I had some cardinals come by, so it was it was great. And i do i have some Canon camera gear so i definitely love to just sit out there when i have time, when i'm not working, and just take some snaps of the birds visiting the gardens. 

Farmer Fred:

So you're using a camera versus using a phone.

Jen McGuinness:

Yes, definitely. I have a long lens. So the one I use is, if I remember correctly, a 200 to 400. But you have to use it when it's pretty bright out because of the way the aperture is. Now I'm getting too dorky and nerdy about camera gear, but it does the trick. That's all that matters.

Farmer Fred:

 Do you use a tripod?

Jen McGuinness:

 No, for the most part, I don't. I usually do use a tripod, though, if I'm going to use the video setting on my camera, just because if I don’t it'll pick up every little quiver. So I will use the tripod for video. But for still shots, I tend to move around a lot. So I don't like the tripod holding me back.

Farmer Fred:

 The photography in the book, Bird Friendly Gardening, is phenomenal. And in fact, you won an award for all the photos, didn't you?

Jen McGuinness:

  So it placed in the Garden Communications awards competition in the silver laurels, in the media awards. So like an overall book award, which was absolutely amazing and made my entire summer. So that was great.

Farmer Fred:

 Well, congratulations on that.

Jen McGuinness:

 Thank you.

CONVERTING LAWNS TO BIRD-FRIENDLY PLANTS

Farmer Fred:

 What I really like, too, is now you're gardening in Connecticut. You and your husband bought a home there. And one of the first things you did was rip out your lawn. Good for you. But I would think back east, ripping out a lawn is not as common an occurrence as it would be here in California.

Jen McGuinness:

 Right. Yeah. I was definitely viewed as, you know, who moved into our neighborhood? What is happening here? laughter, Over time, they've gotten used to me. Now they actually stop by and they ask me questions about the yard. And like funny thing, we had like a tag sale (garage sale) earlier this year and people were more interested in going into the garden and walking around than  looking at the stuff I had at the tag sale. So I was like, oh, this is like a good compliment if they're going right into the garden. But yeah, like it's starting to get a little more popular out here in the Northeast where people are carving up their lawns more, putting in more native plants, more garden spaces. So, lawn is still pretty much king, but we have some good pockets of gardening, and gardens popping up there around the state.

Farmer Fred:

 In defense of lawns in the east, it does rain there in the summertime.

Jen McGuinness:

 You know, usually it does, but this year, oh man, the lack of rain is  really testing our patience. We're not getting as much rain as possible. So everything is looking a little crispy at the moment.

ALL GARDENING IS LOCAL

Farmer Fred:

 I mentioned you're in zone 6B, USDA zone 6B. We are recording this in early September, after Labor Day. And I know that in a lot of the country, Labor Day kind of marks the transition from summer into fall. Whereas here in California, the transition into fall is usually marked by Halloween, a month and a half later. So does it feel like fall there now?

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, it's definitely, you know, like the lack of daylight, I would say like we're losing so much light at the end of the day now. The sun sets at  around 730, which I hate because  I love the sunshine. But yeah, the air is a little bit crisper, even though we still get hot during the day. And a lot of plants that are starting to show up for the fall, like the Joe Pye weed is blooming, the asters are getting ready. So, you know, all those visual  cues are happening to help bring in the season.

Farmer Fred:

 Have the leaves started falling from the trees yet?

Jen McGuinness:

 You know, we've had a few drop, but I think it's more because of the drought. It's definitely not because of the fall colors yet. We still have probably four or five more weeks until that really gets underway.

Farmer Fred:

 So what is your usual first frost date and your last frost date?

Jen McGuinness:

 Usually, late October is our first frost. And then the last frost they say is the last week of April, but everyone pretty much just uses Mother's Day as the safe zone to put things out. Because even though we are supposed to be frost free at that point, we usually get like at least one kicker, you know, so everyone's just treats  Mother's Day as the safe zone.

WATER FEATURES TO ATTRACT BIRDS

Farmer Fred:

 That is a very good idea. Well, let's dive into the book, Bird-Friendly Gardening. And of course, I love to attract birds myself as well. And one thing I've discovered over the years is if you have a water feature in your yard, especially with the sound of moving water, it's amazing how many birds find it. And providing fresh water for birds is a great habit to get into, isn't it?

Jen McGuinness:

Yes, actually, it's one of the main things that will help attract them to your garden is that water source, especially here in the Northeast in the wintertime, when all our natural sources of water are frozen over, having a heated birdbath will definitely bring in the birds. That's how I actually had my first bluebird show up in my garden because they just happened to be flying overhead and they saw that there was some water available for them to drink. 

But you're right, that sound of the moving water, that will bring them in. And yeah, you can put your birdbath at different heights to attract different birds. It's definitely a sure thing, definitely. And one of the most important things about including water in your garden is just making sure that you keep it clean and you keep it fresh. You don't want to leave those birdbaths out and let them get stagnant.

Farmer Fred:

Also, the placement of it is important for a lot of reasons. From a selfish standpoint, we like to put the water features that are going to attract birds within sight of the kitchen window so that you can watch them all day and into the evening and all the birds that come to it. Another good reason for where you place that bird bath is, well…cats. You know, cats kind of like to stalk out birds, especially at bird baths.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, unfortunately, that is the case everywhere. So you want to make sure you have those bird baths in a spot where the birds can see the predators coming. Having shrubs or trees nearby, like between six to ten feet, is ideal because it'll give birds a chance to escape. And that's also true for avoiding hawks, too. If you have hawks in your area, having cover for the smaller birds to evacuate into is also very helpful.

Farmer Fred:

I remember one time in our birdbath with moving water, which is only two inches deep, as you recommend in the book, a hawk landed in it and was just sitting in the water. And it  took up the whole birdbath! I asked him, what are you doing there?

Jen McGuinness:

 That's awesome.

Farmer Fred:

 But getting back to the subject at hand, how do you clean a birdbath?

Jen McGuinness:

I usually try to refresh the water, especially in the summertime. Every day. I use like a bristle brush to scrub it. And that's the inside part. And, you know, different bird baths,  have primarily concrete interiors, but there's different surfaces that some are easier to clean than others. But I scrub it really well and then fill it with fresh water. About, say like every three to four days, I'll do the vinegar mixture to clean the birdbath, and that's nine parts water to one part vinegar. So you use that to scrub really well and then rinse it out, dump it out, rinse it out, and then refill it. So that's what I use just to keep it from getting mucky, you know. And there's also a bleach ratio too. I tend not to need to use the bleach one, I think, because I just clean it so regularly. So I just, I use the vinegar one. I find it easier.

Farmer Fred:

[10:12] Yeah, especially if you have a recirculating pump, moving that water around in it, and you want to clean it. If you use too harsh of a bleach, you could damage that pump.

Jen McGuinness:

[10:23] Yeah, that's a great point. So you definitely, you're undertaking a lot there.

Farmer Fred:

[10:28] And sometimes that's a bit of a chore to, you know, empty out all the water, scrub it, and then refill it. How often do you have to do that?

Jen McGuinness:

[10:37] Well, I usually do like every couple of days, like three to four. I have one of those solar pumps. So it's pretty small. And I usually, you know, scrub that really well. And I blast it with the hose with like, you know, just like a shower setting. I'll push the water through it. So my setup isn't that complicated. It sounds like you have a more complicated one with the recirculating system with your fountain.

Farmer Fred:

[11:02] Yes, with the pump buried beneath the water that you have to dig for and run a sump pump to pump all the water out.

Jen McGuinness:

[11:12] Wow. Yeah. So you definitely you're more complicated than I am.

BIRDS VS. CATS

Farmer Fred:

 I mentioned at the start that there are hundreds of bird species in population decline or at risk of extinction. How much is the cat responsible for that?

Jen McGuinness:

 Oh, a good amount, actually. And let me just, I want to make sure I give you the right stats. So the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates that an average of 2.4 billion birds are killed by cats every year. So that's a very large percentage. So obviously, if you can keep your cats indoors, that would be a big help to  save the birds. And, birds have a lot of things up against them to begin with between the migration, all the risks they encounter there. So anything we can do to just make their lives a little easier, keeping cats indoors is one of them.

Farmer Fred:

 And also the placement of other plants or shrubs nearby can either dissuade cats or provide an escape route for the birds, too. So you don't really want to bury that fountain or birdbath in a jungle to give the cat a hiding place. But I would think you would want some nearby shrubs or trees to allow the bird to escape to.

Jen McGuinness:

[12:37] Yeah, exactly. Birds will not really go to a birdbath that's, like, wide open in the middle of a lawn. And that's because they don't have something that they can flee into quickly. So you want, like, a good compromise, right? You want something about, like, five to eight feet away from the birdbath. so they can escape. And at the same time, like you just mentioned, cats are very, very talented at hiding. So if you can make the plants around your birdbath lower, that will be ideal also. You don't want overgrown plants right up against the birdbath that obscures the ground. So that leveled effect would help. We have like lower plants underneath the birdbath and then expanding out into your yard where you get a little bit taller plants.

BIRDS VS. WINDOWS

Farmer Fred:

 All right. All right, so clean water attracts a lot of birds, so keep the birdbath clean and have that water feature where you can enjoy it and watch all the birds that come in. One noise that most homeowners get very familiar with is the thunk of a bird hitting a picture window. And when that happens, you know exactly what's happened. You know it's a bird plowing into the window, because it didn't, I don't know, what it saw or didn't see. What is the deal with window strikes?

Jen McGuinness:

] Yeah, so windows, especially at different times of the day, are really good at reflecting the outside environment, whether that be trees or just open sky. And birds don't have the ability to tell that that's a reflective glass. So they'll keep flying towards it thinking, oh, this is perfect. You know, it's an escape route. And then they'll hit the glass. So one thing you can do to help minimize that from happening is treating your windows with either decals or like a sticker tape. Or you can even paint the windows. But the trick to it is that you have to have it fairly close together as a pattern. Like if you take one of those hawk decals and stick it in the middle of your picture window, that's not going to do the trick. You need like several for it to actually help the bird see. And a lot of them are like UV decals that help reflect the light because the birds can see more UV than we can. So that's another way to help. So that's during the day how you can help them. But they also are challenged at night too. So you want to close your curtains at the night so that way they don't think that that's still a path that they can fly towards. And then those bright lights at night also cause a problem, especially like in the cities during migration season where the lights kind of disoriented the birds and they can have more window strikes then as well.

Farmer Fred:

 Unfortunately, you can't use sounds or smells to prevent collisions. But aren't there some commercial glass products available to help prevent collisions?

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, there are actually some companies now that are making bird-safe glass. And they're, I think, using it in Chicago for a few buildings. So, with new buildings going up, if people choose bird-safe glass, that's another way just to help prevent those window strikes.

Farmer Fred:

 And I would think, too, having maybe screens on the outside. And you have one idea in your book as well about hanging cords in front of the glass on the outside.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, if you have the space for it, that is helpful, too, because, again, it breaks up that reflective quality of the glass. And you also mentioned the screens. That's another great way because it just gives a slight different color. You just want to minimize  the clearness of the glass, basically.

BIRD FEEDERS

Farmer Fred:

 Let's talk about feeding birds. Or I think in my neighborhood, it's more about feeding squirrels because it seems like they get the bird seed first. But you can grow your own bird seed, can't you?

Jen McGuinness:

You can, yeah. There's a lot of plants that birds will eat the seeds from. The most popular ones that are like easy to grow are sunflowers. Kindergartners can do that. And that's an awesome way to bring birds into your garden. If you manage to, get the seeds harvested before it's squirrel finds on his course. And then coneflowers are another great perennial that you can grow for the bird seed. Just like today in my garden, the goldfinches were going after the coneflowers. So in my case, like I just leave them standing. I don't actually harvest it to put in a feeder, but I'll leave it up and then they'll come and eat it throughout the fall and winter.

Farmer Fred:

 There is a plant we can grow here in USDA Zone 9. It’s a very odd-looking plant, but it's one of my favorites because I like odd-looking plants. It's called the Tower of Jewels. It's an Echium, an Echium wildprettii, and it's a biennial. And for the first year, it just looks like Cousin Itt. It's a little green blob that sits on the ground. But the second year, it sends up a five-foot, six-foot stalk with just beautiful, red, jewel-like flowers all along the stalk. And they last for the longest time in the spring. And then when the flowers die off, the seeds remain. And so all the little birds, the finches especially, love to just attach themselves to that stalk and pick off the seeds.

Jen McGuinness:

 That's so cool. I just put it into Google to see what you were talking about. And that's a really neat plant. That's awesome.

Farmer Fred:

 Yeah. And it self-sews. So if you plant it once, you will have it forever. It's more of a warm season plant as far as its habitat. I know it does well here in USDA Zone 9, but it's certainly it attracts the attention of a lot of people that go by.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, yeah. It's quite the statement piece, it looks like.

Farmer Fred:

 But certainly just growing sunflowers throughout the summer and watching the birds hit the heads this time of year is wonderful.

Jen McGuinness:

 Absolutely. Yeah. And there's other varieties of coneflowers too that the birds will go after, like narrow leaf coneflower. There's so many in the Rubeckia family that they will be attracted to also. So, you know, it's just scratching the surface. And in the book, there's a lot of plants that are listed that provide food to the birds. Yeah, we should point that out.

Farmer Fred:

That there are all sorts of charts and lists of plants that attract birds for a variety of situations that you can get into. And we'll be talking a little bit about that as well. Besides seeds, you can grow fruit for your birds.  I know that's why they like my blueberries. But besides that, so my option is, all right, I'll just grow enough for all of us. And have a serious conversation with the robins come May about who gets there first.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yes, yes. In our garden, I'm usually competing with the robins and the catbirds. And I know they're ripe because as soon as they start frequenting the bush, I'm like, oh, okay. It's blueberry season now. And I have to say, they usually, it's like a 75-25 split here. And they are on the 75% side of the blueberries harvested.

Farmer Fred:

 Well, that's right. And that's why maybe I'm getting into the habit now of trimming my plants back fairly severely after harvest to allow me to put a hoop and netting over it to protect more for myself. But I don't mind having the conversations, especially with the robins in the spring, who insist that those berries are theirs. The blueberries are theirs. They will sit on the fence right behind the blueberries and stare at me while I'm lecturing them and they just squawk back at me like, OK, let's have this discussion.

Jen McGuinness:

 They're like, obviously, you're mistaken, sir. Yes.

Farmer Fred:

But there are plants that produce berries that I can say, “okay, go ahead, those are yours.” When we had acreage, I would plant a lot of those, things like manzanita, toyon, pyracantha, to name three, that produce small berries that they love. Now, especially with the toyon, which has the common name Christmas Berry, it has the unique aspect here of producing the berries at Christmastime. And it's an evergreen plant. So it's good shelter as well as being a restaurant. So it's kind of like Howard Johnson's Restaurant and Motel all in one for the small birds to go after those small berries. And you mentioned in the book one of my favorite low-growing berry-producing plants. It's a low-growing manzanita, the bear berry, the Arctostaphylos uva ursi. Which is just a wonderful little plant.

Jen McGuinness:

That is a great one. And yeah, if you can include that in your garden plans, it's a fabulous one. Usually that one goes into the very colder USDA zones too. So that's awesome that you're able to grow it in your garden out there.

Farmer Fred:

 What are some of the berry producing plants that the birds flock to back there in Connecticut?

Jen McGuinness:

 A big one is our spice bush that is actually starting to set berries now. And that will attract a lot of the birds that are migrating through. So that's a great stopover plant. The cardinals also like that one as well. We plant a lot of elderberries. Those are very popular with the birds. And then behind my fence, back where it's kind of like a wooded area, I actually let pokeweed grow, which is a weed, but it'll bring to the birds. So I leave it back there for them. And right now, you know, nobody's bothering it. The birds love it. So I'll let that slide, too.

Farmer Fred:

 And for those who don't know, pokeweed is a poisonous plant that can take over a yard because of those berries that can, of course, germinate. And it gets fairly tall. It's really a gorgeous plant, the pokeweed, with those purple berries and the red stem. And it's just gorgeous. But it's a noxious weed. But, yeah, it's amazing how birds can enjoy poisonous plants, and we have to watch out for them. And you mentioned one in your book I found surprising that a lot of birds like, and that's poison oak.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah. Yeah. And actually right now, like poison ivy is another one that they go after. And my neighbor has a lot of poison ivy on her tree and it's spreading throughout the neighborhood because the birds love the berries and our neighborhood loves birds. So we're, we're dealing with that right now too. But yeah, if you remove the fact that it's not a great plant to have in your garden, it's a great native to feed the birds. That's one of those like catch 22s, right?

Farmer Fred:

Well, you're using it as a back 40 plant and that's perfectly fine. Right.

Jen McGuinness:

There you go. Yeah. And then there's other plants that we put in, like the highbush cranberries. That's a popular one that does have a nice white flower in the springtime, and choke cherries. That’s another one that's really popular out here. And those are good for like the moist areas. But again, that's another one where the birds can eat the fruit, but not the people.

Farmer Fred:

 It's one thing to grow food for the birds, like those berry-producing plants. So is it necessary, really, for using bird feeders to provide supplemental food?

Jen McGuinness:

 So technically, no. Bird feeders are great because it helps people connect with the birds, but they won't need your feeder in the wintertime to survive. And if you plant a lot of these native plants that are providing the cover the shelter the food like the berries in the wintertime you're going to naturally attract them in because they're going to be searching for those food sources. So bird feeding with the seeds is really more for us. And a lot of  citizen science projects have popped up too to help monitor bird populations, One of them is Project Feeder Watch, which starts, I believe, in November and it runs through April. So that's a great way where you can track the birds coming to your garden. So technically, no, you don't need to put out a bird feeder, but a lot of people have been feeding birds and it seems to be increasing in popularity.

Farmer Fred:

 Birds aren't the neatest of eaters. They drop a lot of seed and whatever else you may be putting into a bird feeder, making it very easy for squirrels and rats to get to it. I hear a lot of complaints from some of my listeners about trying to find a squirrel proof bird feeder. Is there such a thing?

Jen McGuinness:

 You know, there's some that come really close. I'm not sure if we found the perfect one yet. I try to use seeds that are shell-less just to minimize the debris that'll be

on the bottom underneath the feeder, just to help keep everything cleaner. But yeah, I still feel like the squirrels are just so smart that they do figure out a way to get to the feeders. A lot of it is about placement. So if you put your feeder in a spot where a squirrel can't throw himself onto it, launch himself from like an arbor or a tree or a bush, that will help you a lot. And there's, you know, some feeders where they will close the openings when the squirrel does land on it. But for the perfect one, I don't have one yet.

Farmer Fred:

 I'm sure we've all seen the videos of cats or of squirrels running obstacle courses and managing to get to the food.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yes. Yeah. They're very clever. And every time you try there, it's, you can see they're just basically saying, “okay, challenge accepted. I'm going to do this.”

Farmer Fred:

 What are the best fillers for bird feeders? Is it still cracked corn, millet, and milo?

Jen McGuinness:

 I kind of stay away from the filler seeds, to be honest. And I was trying to think of one that was acceptable in my mind. But I find that the ratios are usually off when you do the seed blends. It's so heavy on the Milo as opposed to the black oil sunflower seed. So what I do is I usually buy the straight-up safflower or the straight-up sunflower seed. Yeah, I would say I kind of stick to the single varieties.

Farmer Fred:

 Have you tried some interesting feeders like mealworm feeders?

Jen McGuinness:

 Yes, yes. The bluebirds love them. Have you had luck with them out there?

Farmer Fred:

 I've never tried one.

Jen McGuinness:

 Oh, yeah, you should give it a shot. Some people,  put the live mealworms in. You can buy dried mealworms if raising insects isn't really your thing. That's what I tend to do. I get like a dried bag of mealworms that they sell for chickens, and I'll put those out and it will track the bluebirds. And Carolina wrens here also love it.

Farmer Fred:

There are ground feeding birds. What is the best mix for a ground feeding bird?

Jen McGuinness:

 So that would be like your sparrows, your morning doves. And they will do more of like you were saying before, would like the millet. They can do cracked corn, but they will also eat other seeds, too. Like, if you only have black oil sunflower.

Farmer Fred:

 They'll eat that as well. Yeah, I'm always amazed at birds that can fly that would still prefer to eat close to the ground, like the juncos.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, it's funny how they will feed on the ground and they won't go up to the feeders as much. And you're right, I really don't see juncos going to the feeders. I guess that's also similar, though, to how certain birds will nest on the ground. Some will nest on shrubs. So it's just like those individual preferences.

LANDSCAPING TO ATTRACT BIRDS

Farmer Fred:

 We talked in the beginning about how you tore out your lawn and put in plants. Was that because the backyard is too shady and that was the only spot you had sun was in the front?

Jen McGuinness:

That was part of the reason. I did take out lawn in the back too. I was going for both at the same time. In my backyard, I have black walnut trees, which are a great native plant, but it really limits what you can grow around the tree because they put a toxin into the ground to minimize competition with other plants. So there's a bunch of plants that have either evolved with the black walnut. They're like native plants that can tolerate that plant toxin, or you learn the hard way, ones that can't, like hydrangeas or lilacs. They don't make it. So in my front yard, I was able to plant plants that are more susceptible to black walnuts. So that was kind of what started the front yard, but then it took on its own character. I was growing food, and then I started growing more plants to bring in the pollinators. And that's when I noticed that like, hey, it's not just the bees and the butterflies showing up, it's the birds too. And then over time, I would say now it's definitely more of like a bird slash pollinator garden in the front garden.

Farmer Fred:

We mentioned that you have a lot of charts in the book for suggested plants to attract birds for your particular gardening situation. And a lot of gardeners have more shade than they used to have. Well, plants grow and that's why you have more shade. What are some plants for, say, a shady patio that can attract the birds and the plants will do well in the shade?

Jen McGuinness:

 Oh, so there's a lot to choose from. You can do red bearberry. That's what we mentioned before. That was a plant with berries that does well in the shade. Red columbine is a great plant that brings in the hummingbirds with those red flowers. I grow a lot of zigzag goldenrod (Solidago flexicaulis) in my backyard. It's different than the goldenrod that you'll see like out along the roadway that's really tall and likes the hot areas. Zigzag doesn't get as tall, but it does well with moist soil and  dappled shade. Yeah, it's a nice option to try. And there's a bunch of ferns. The nice thing about ferns is that a lot of them provide nesting material for birds. So that's awesome. You know, there's also golden Alexander (Zizia aurea). That one is hearty to, it's like four to eight, the zoning, but it's also the native plant for black swallowtail butterflies in our area. So we grow it for that reason and the other native insects that it attracts that feed the birds.

Farmer Fred:

You also have in your list for the Shady Patio Retreat for plants, you mentioned heucheras, and heucheras are one of my favorite plants for the shade.

Jen McGuinness:

Yeah, and there's so many different varieties now, too. It really adds that pop of color, so those are a great one.

Jen McGuinness:

 And for those of you who are in a drought.

Farmer Fred:

 And I think at one point or another, everybody in America faces a drought. It could be a short-lived drought or an extended drought. We've all been through droughts, and there are water-wise native plants for every region that do attract birds. One of my favorites here in USDA Zone 9 is the agastache, the hyssop. And to me, it's just a hummingbird magnet.

Jen McGuinness:

Yes, that's an amazing one. And I love that one just because of the flowers. And like you said, it brings in the hummingbirds. There's also a lot of grasses.

Farmer Fred:

 Talk about the grasses.

Jen McGuinness:

 There's a lot of grasses that attract the birds too. And they'll provide not only the food for them, but like with the seeds, but also they're host plants for native caterpillars. They provide, you know, their fall and winter interest for you as a design option. And they're usually very tolerant of the dry conditions.

Farmer Fred:

 Yeah, milkweed kind of falls into that since it is a caterpillar and butterfly magnet, as you might imagine. But I would think that those caterpillars make for good bird food,

too.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, you know, technically the modern caterpillars are supposed to be toxic. That's why they are colored the way they are to warn the birds like, don't eat me. But, you know, there are some birds that live on the dark side and will try anyway. But there's other insects that are obviously attracted to milkweed, too. So the birds will come in and grab those as well. And then, you know, the flowers will attract them, especially the butterflyweed, the orange flower milkweed. That'll bring in hummingbirds, which is another win, right? Butterflies and hummingbirds.

Farmer Fred:

 Yeah, people love hummingbirds. And just to watch them in flight and their mating rituals and the fact that they're fearless, absolutely fearless. When it comes to claiming territory.

Jen McGuinness:

Absolutely. And you have so many out there, too. I'm jealous. We have the ruby-throated out here, but out west, it's like a whole smorgasbord of all the different hummingbirds. It's awesome.

Farmer Fred:

One of my favorite plants to attract hummingbirds, and I've got the plant sitting right outside my office window where I do all my writing and my podcasts, and it's an abutilon, a flowering maple. It's the Tiger Eye variety, and it has this beautiful bell-shaped orange and yellow and red flower that the hummingbirds really flock to. And because we're in a mild enough climate, it's an evergreen plant, and there are flowers on it 12 months a year. So there was always hummingbirds flitting about. I remember one amazing time when back during COVID, I was doing a radio show from home because they wouldn't let you into the radio station. So we did it from home and we did it sitting here at the picture window in the office. And myself and Debbie Flower and I were sitting here talking about whatever. And then all of a sudden, this bird landed in the Abutilon that neither one of us had seen before. And we both stopped mid-sentence going, what is that? And it turned out to be a black hooded Oriole.

Jen McGuinness:

 Wow.

Farmer Fred:

 And it was just gorgeous. It was this yellow-headed, yellow-throated bird with black wings. And it was just absolutely gorgeous. And yes, it is a West Coast Oriole. And it paid us a brief visit interrupting our radio show, but that's okay. We stopped and we found out the information quick enough to identify it.

Jen McGuinness:

 That is so cool. Wow. That, that's so cool. I'm jealous.

THE BEST BIRD-IDENTIFYING APP?

Farmer Fred:

 What do you use to identify birds?

Jen McGuinness:

 Oh, well, I am definitely becoming a Merlin fan. Have you used that app? 

Farmer Fred:

 Yes, I have.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah. I, I love it. And especially during the migration season, I just go outside, I turn it on and, and just kind of see who's out there, who's singing. And that also helps too, when I'm, I'm looking for taking photos because it gives me a heads up of like, oh, this is who's in the neighborhood, this is who I should be looking for. I've gotten better with identifying the songs of the regular visitors, but a lot of those traveling migrators, I don't know their songs off the top of my head. So Merlin has come in very handy. And I also like the option where you can submit a photo. A lot of times, especially now with the migrators coming through, I'll snap a picture of somebody and I'm like, oh, who was that? I could go back to the Audubon guides and look it up that way. But, you know, instant gratification. I put it into the Merlin app and it tells me pretty quickly like, oh, this was an American Red Start. So that's pretty awesome. So I am definitely on board with the Merlin app.

Farmer Fred:

 I believe Merlin is a project of Cornell University's ornithological department, isn't it?

Jen McGuinness:

It is. Yeah. Yeah.

Farmer Fred:

And it is. So if you're looking for accurate bird information, I would think Cornell would be the go-to place.

Jen McGuinness:

 Absolutely so you know you don't have to worry about it being like you're saying like something that was created and could have not factual information i've found that it's very accurate and it usually gives you more than you're even looking for right like you can look up the, range. You can find out a little description that gives you a bunch of pictures. So there's more than enough information in there.

Farmer Fred:

 You can hear the bird song as well.

Jen McGuinness:

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that cool? But you should be careful with that too. Like when you're playing those bird songs, you don't really want to play them to attract birds to you so you can see them. So part of like being a good birder is not doing the callback just because it could distract them from, you know, what they're doing, looking for food or whatever they're up to. But that's like one of those important things you have to say. But if you're in the, you know, privacy, you're a home, you want to listen to all the bird songs, go for it.

WINDOW BOX PLANTS TO ATTRACT BIRDS

Farmer Fred:

 You have a chapter in your book about West Coast window boxes. And a window box, if you don't have the ability to grow a flowering shrub right outside your picture window, a window box is a great idea to get the birds up close to where you can see them easier. And you list a lot of plants there that are fairly easy to grow in that window box that would do well here. Things like the salvia, the zinnias, penstemens all do well.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, the goal with that project was if you don't have a lot of space, but you still want to feed the birds, attract the birds, there's plants that can help with that. So that was the goal with that project was to look for things that are on more of the compact side. Some of them do get like a little big. So if you have a fairly large planter, you can, you know, upscale a bit. But yeah, there's a lot of great options. And just because it's labeled as like, you know, West Coast, you can grow it across other zones as well.

PLANTS FOR MOIST AREAS TO ATTRACT BIRDS

Farmer Fred:

 What if you have a swampy area and you have a chapter about it called moisture-rich garden? What are the plants that do well that attract birds in a moisture-rich garden?

Jen McGuinness:

Oh, well, one of the most popular ones I would say is cardinal flower. And they have those bright red flowers that attract the hummingbirds. And they do really well in the wet soil. Buttonbush is another great one. I think that's hardy to your zone as well. They do great with wet soil they get kind of large but the seeds are attractive not just to, it like the plants not attractive just to songbirds like you can actually help feed ducks and shorebirds with that one too so that's like a fun a fun fun feature of that plant and it's also great for the insects the hummingbirds will come in on it too and yeah there's oh my Gosh, what else do we have? Winterberry, that's a popular one out here, especially in the wintertime. We'll have a lot of areas along the highway that are just red berries. So those are great. Those attract the birds.

Farmer Fred:

I love that you have the dinner plate hibiscus on there, the swamp mallow, the hibiscus maschiotos, with these flowers that can get seven to eight inches across with new flowers popping up every day.

Jen McGuinness:

Yeah, that's a fun one, too. And definitely if you want that pop of color, those are great for that.

Farmer Fred:

 Yeah, if you have a garden with sort of a tropical effect, that hibiscus moshiotos just looks stunning.

Jen McGuinness:

 Absolutely, yeah. They'll blend in really nicely.

DEER RESISTANT PLANTS?

Farmer Fred:

[40:48] I don't know if I want to get into deer-resistant plants or not.

Jen McGuinness:

[40:52] Do you have a lot of deer pressure out there?

Farmer Fred:

[40:56] Yeah. There's a lot of deer pressure here. Oh. And the thinking around here is there's no such thing as a deer-resistant plant. Because if they're hungry enough, they'll eat it.

Jen McGuinness:

[41:08] Yeah. Right. If they're desperate enough. So, yeah. So I won't. The garden that I did for the book, for deer-resistant, I tried that at my father-in-law's house. because he actively feeds the deer. He's like very into it. So I was like, okay, if these plants survive here, that's a really great sign. So a lot of them that are listed did really well. Then the deer left them alone. But then there were other ones like, you know, the common sunflower that you grow for the seeds for the birds. Deer went right after those, you know. But they stayed away from the eastern red cedar. They left the swamp milkweed alone. So there are ones that will not be at the top of the list, but you're right. If they're at the point where there's no other options, they'll just kind of suck it up and they might give it a try.

TREES AND SHRUBS FOR THE BIRDS

Farmer Fred:

 Okay. I know that from planting a little bit of everything over my career that I've noticed the small birds love the good bird hotels, which are usually dense, green, evergreen, tall shrubs. And one of my favorites for that is the Loris noblis, the bay laurel. And they just flock there and live there. And it's nice because we've been talking about providing food for birds, but they need shelter as well, especially the small birds, to protect themselves from predators. What are your thoughts on that?

Jen McGuinness:

Yeah, trees really make a big difference in your gardenscape. So when you're planning your garden, you know, it's fun to be like, oh, I'm going to put these flowers in and these shrubs. But you really should also consider a tree or a couple of trees that you could incorporate as well. And obviously, those native trees are going to offer the most food and shelter for the birds. There's one that's a keystone plant that Doug Tallamy always talks about. 

(note: Douglas Tallamy is an American entomologist, ecologist and conservationist. He is a professor in the Department of Entomology and Wildlife Ecology at the University of Delaware. Tallamy has written and co-authored several books as well as papers.)Dr. Doug Tallamy is an entomologist, conservationist, and Those are the oak trees. Those are fantastic. And there are some smaller varieties of oak trees. So if you don't have the space for like the really big ones, you can do a smaller one. But yeah, there's a lot of maples that are great. There's so many options and they just add that layer to the top of your garden. And a lot of the warblers actually will be feeding off of the leaves at the top of those trees because that's where all the insects are. So if you do want to make your garden a little bit more friendly to those warblers passing through, that's a great way to do it also.

Farmer Fred:

 Evergreen shrubs, too. They don't have to be as tall as a tree, but just maybe something that gets 8, 10, 12 feet tall is great for the smaller birds of the evergreen varieties. In our area, petosporums do a great job with that. I bet the hollies do well in your area.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yep, yep, they do. And we have a lot of spruce, too, that will do well. And, you know, in our case, we need something to help protect them from those winter winds. So those evergreens are definitely clutched. I have a bunch of Arborites that are so far doing well. And there's a bunch of birds that will hang out on there  in the wintertime just because they can hide inside the branches and avoid the wind.

FAVORITE ZINNIA?

Farmer Fred:

 So I've got one more question for you. You are the proprietor of FrauZinnie.com. which would translate as Mrs. Zinnia. What is your favorite Zinnia?

Jen McGuinness:

 Oh, the Queenie Lime Orange is my absolute favorite. And there's so many varieties, too, that it's hard to choose. But I first ran into that variety back in 2017. I was invited out to California to go to the plant trials with All America Selections. And it just happened that that year was the one they were trialing that zinnia. And I saw it in the field and I was just like, oh, I loved it. I was like, I need the zinnia. And they're like, well, you know, if it wins, then it'll become available. I'm like, this better win. So luckily it did. And now everyone can have those seeds. So that's my favorite zinnia.

Farmer Fred:

 Yeah, the Queenie Lime zinnia is widely available. And I think they've got a lot of hybrid varieties of it as well now, too.

Jen McGuinness:

 Yeah, yeah. There's like a rose. There's a lime. There's a whole series. So that's my favorite. Do you have a favorite zinnia?

Farmer Fred:

 Mine is sitting as a cut flower on my desk right now, the Zowie Yellow Flame.

Jen McGuinness:

 Oh, that's a pretty one too.

Farmer Fred:

 Yeah. I plant a lot of it, but that's okay because interspersing these plants that attract beneficial insects is great for a healthy garden.

Jen McGuinness:

 Absolutely. There's always room for it, isn't it?

Farmer Fred:

 There you go. All right. It's, it's, I'll do this right now. All right. It's Jen McGuinness. She's author of the book, Bird-Friendly Gardening. For more information about her, visit her website, FrauZinnie.com, F-R-A-U-Z-I-N-N-I-E, FrauZinnie.com. And she's also the author of the book, Microfood Gardening. We've been making friends with the birds here, talking about bird-friendly gardening. Jen McGuinness, thank you so much for your time today.

Jen McGuinness:

 Thank you so much for having me. I love chatting about birds with you.

BEYOND THE GARDEN BASICS NEWSLETTER

Farmer Fred:

Gardeners are saying very nice things about the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter:

Tessy says, I’m going to try your coffee filter germination trick to get pepper seeds to sprout sooner. Thank you for this very helpful information in your newsletter. 

Laura writes in to say, You and America's favorite retired college horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, have made me a better and happier gardener with the Beyond the Garden Basics Newsletter.

Tanya says, I subscribed immediately when I read your newsletter about the benefits of NOT pruning tomatoes. I don't, nor do two of my favorite French market gardeners, one of whom is the 6th generation in a long line of successful market farmers. Thank you!

 Robin writes, I work the Help Desk for my county Master Gardener program, and I find I am sometimes overwhelmed by garden problems - disease, confusion, too much or not enough water, gophers… I love the idea in one of your recent newsletters of keeping a gratitude journal based on daily walks in the garden.  Thanks!

The Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter comes out twice a week. Friday’s edition is free for all subscribers. The Monday edition is available for paid subscribers.

By the way, your paid subscription to the newsletter supports not only the ongoing efforts to produce the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter, but also helps keep the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast freely available each week.

Find a link to more information about the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter in today’s show notes; at our home page, garden basics dot net. Or just do an internet search for the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter.

And thank you for your support and encouragement to keep the good gardening conversation going. 

FARMER FRED’S RIDE FOR THE KIDS!

Farmer Fred:

Coming up on Saturday, Oct 4th, I’ll be riding my bike. “Well, what’s so unusual about that?” you might be asking yourself.

October 4th is the date of the Sacramento Century Challenge, a 100-mile bicycling event along the Sacramento River that starts in downtown Sacramento and heads south through the Delta farmland region and loops back.

And yes, 100 miles is part of the challenge.  Also part of the challenge is me being 74 years old. And no, I will not be riding an electric bike.  Adding to the challenge will be the route itself, infamous for pothole-filled river levee roads, as well as ferocious northerly headwinds that are usually in your face while you’re pedaling on the way back.

I’m doing this for a very good cause, I’m helping out the Sacramento Rotary Club raise money for the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery.

The Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery is the only program of its kind here in Sacramento County. It directly prevents child abuse and neglect by supporting families with small children at times of crisis. The nursery allows parents to bring their children, ages newborn to five, for emergency hourly or overnight care and protection during difficult times at home, with the goal of keeping families together and reducing the number of children entering foster care. 

We are calling it “Farmer Fred’s Ride for the Kids”, and we will have a link (https://bit.ly/4lmr09E) in today’s show notes with more information and how you can donate to help out The Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery and urge me onward.

So, how about it? Maybe pledge 10 cents a mile (that’s $10) along with a hearty, “You go, Fred!” Or a more generous one dollar a mile ($100), to help give me the mental endurance for this all day ride. At my age, I’ll take my time, thank you, and enjoy the farmland scenery…and try to stay upright on the bike.

Again, please support Farmer Fred’s Ride for the Kids. Look for the link in today’s show notes, or at gardenbasics.net. Your support will help provide a safe place for local small children in need. 

Thank you for your support, let’s go!

https://bit.ly/4lmr09E

Farmer Fred:

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred comes out every Friday. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, as well as an accurate transcript of the podcast, visit our website, gardenbasics.net. And thank you so much for listening and your support.