410 Fall Gardening Tips. How to Water.

Show Transcript

410 TRANSCRIPT FALL GARDEN TIPS, HOW TO WATER

Farmer Fred

What are you doing to get your garden ready for the fall and winter? Today, we share essential fall gardening tips, courtesy of the Sacramento County Master Gardeners. We discuss enriching soil with fallen leaves, composting techniques, and managing fruit trees, including pruning and irrigation adjustments. Also, Debbie Flower, America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, offers a primer on correct watering techniques (originally aired in GB 329).

Today, it’s Episode 410, Fall Gardening Tips, and How to Water. We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios, here in the beautiful abutilon jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. Let’s go!

FALL GARDENING TIP - LEAVE THE LEAVES

Farmer Fred

We're here at a September workday at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, getting tips about fall gardening. Every gardener has a fall garden tip of one thing or another. And one of my favorites, of course, has to do with, what do you do with your garden when you're done? What do you do with that bed of soil? We're talking with Jeff Kapellas. He's a Master Gardener with Sacramento County. And Jeff, what is your solution for helping that soil out during the dormant time of the year?

Jeff Kapellas

Well, Fred, one of the easiest things to do is just leave the leaves. When the leaves come on down, we follow nature, right? We just let the leaves decompose, refeed the soil, refeed the soil biology, and the organisms down there and provide habitat for overwintering beneficials.

Farmer Fred

And if you have raised beds, you can move them to the top of the raised beds, too. One thing I like to do is after raking up oak leaves is I put them in a metal trash can and then weed whack them into smaller pieces or use a mulching mower to chop them into finer pieces in order that they break down a little quicker and help feed the soil. And it does a whole host of good because, frankly, it's a mulch.

Jeff Kapellas

Exactly. What I use is I have a, it's kind of like a garden vacuum that has a bag on it. It's like a mulching vacuum and it will cut up those leaves into various small pieces. I also store them in a metal container over the course of the year and then use that to feed my compost bins during the spring and summer months.

Farmer Fred

Yeah, there's actually a lot of great containers for mulch like that. I use a SmartPot 100-gallon compost bag where I store my excess leaves over the summer. And you just treat it like you would a compost bag and basically keep it somewhat moist and then use the leaves as you need them. Or you can use the compost that's forming at the bottom of that bag.

Jeff Kapellas

Exactly. I've noticed that as I go further on into the season, those leaves are chipped down and yeah, they're just ready to put out on the surface of the soil.

Farmer Fred

One other great benefit, too, of on your garden bed, of stacking it with six to eight inches of leaves, is we are going to get rainstorms eventually. And they can be rather fierce at times. And the force of rain actually compacts the soil if there isn't anything there to buffer those raindrops. And those leaves make a great buffer because as the rain hits those leaves, it slows down the progress of the water and it drips down through the leaves and it waters the soil that way without compacting the soil.

Jeff Kapellas

Absolutely. It also helps to suppress weeds because those same rainstorms that come through are going to start activating those weed seeds that have been dormant in your soil and gathering all spring and summer long. If you put a thick layer of leaf mulch over that, those seeds are not going to get the sunlight that will help them to germinate come spring.

Farmer Fred

And you're also creating a winter home for beneficials.

Jeff Kapellas

Absolutely. There are a number of moths and butterflies whose cocoons actually overwinter in the duff, in that leaf mulch, that leaf litter during the winter, and a whole host of other beneficials as well.

Farmer Fred

Yeah, the microbiology of the soil vastly improves when you've got that layer of leaves on top of the garden bed, and the worms love it too.

Jeff Kapellas

You know, I think I've heard that from a very wise Master Gardener’s podcast over the years.

Farmer Fred

We like worms. Yes. All right.] So if you're going to do anything in the fall, well, protect your soil with some ground up leaves or just the leaves if they're small enough. And you can make it six inches, eight inches thick, and you're going to be helping out your soil to have a great next year.

Jeff Kapellas

Absolutely. Leave the leaves. That's the best tip I can give.

Farmer Fred

I've heard that before, yeah. Jeff Kapellas, Master Gardener, thanks so much.

Jeff Kapellas

Thank you so much, Fred.

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FALL GARDENING TIP - FALL ORCHARD CARE

Farmer Fred

Fall garden advice, do you have a tip? I know a lot of Master Gardeners who have some great fall garden tips. We are talking with Sacramento County Master Gardener Quentyn Young here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on a September workday. Fall will be upon us soon. And Quentyn, you usually show up and work around the orchard area. What are some good fall garden tips for people growing fruit trees?

Quentyn Young

So this time of year, we're starting to look at irrigation. We're getting ready to turn things down now that we've harvested most of our fruit. And because we do a lot of summer pruning. We're going to start looking at trees to see which ones can we prune in September. And ideally, we're not going to do any more pruning no later at the very latest in October.

Farmer Fred

There are certain diseases that affect certain fruit trees. Cherries and apricots come to mind where you actually you want to be pruning in August at the very latest in order to stave off any rain-borne diseases.

Quentyn Young

Exactly, yeah. So we don't want to promote some things like Eutypa dieback. But yeah, September usually is about the latest we'll prune most of our deciduous fruit trees. For our citrus trees, we can prune and shape them year round. What we're going to be looking at for winter is to sort of prune up those lower branches because we don't want those winter rains splashing bacteria and fungus up into the leaves from the soil.

Farmer Fred

And another great reason for what is called skirting your fruit trees, removing any of the branches that are close to the ground, is destroy that freeway for the rats.

Quentyn Young

Exactly. Rats, to a lesser degree, squirrels. But yeah, you just don't want that soil splashing up into the canopy.

Farmer Fred

Now, I know Martha Stewart will disagree with us, but then, you know, all gardening is local. And she talked about in a recent article about don't prune your fruit trees this time of year because they'll be damaged by frost in the fall. And it turns out the article was written by a gardener in Wisconsin. Yeah, that's right, you wouldn't do that in Wisconsin. But if you're in USDA Zone 9 or Zone 8 or even parts of Zone 7, you could probably get away with extending that pruning season if you had to.

Quentyn Young

You definitely could. And with citrus, we're really lucky here because we can grow it year round. But you can see on our citrus, we have some water sprouts, so we're definitely going to prune those out now. And we shape them throughout the year.

Farmer Fred

This is where those thorn-proof sleeves come in handy if you're trying to work your way into the middle of a citrus tree to get that water spout, which could be emanating from the base from below the graft union. And you want to avoid thorns while you're on that journey.

Quentyn Young

That's true. And then don't forget, too, with your container citrus, today we're actually feeding all of our container citrus. We're also feeding all of our avocados. This is going to be the last feeding for the year, and we're going to be expecting that feeding to help with fruit and flower production next spring.

Farmer Fred

So, yeah, this would be then the time for the last feeding because as the soil temperature drops, as the days get shorter, it can't use that fertilizer, so you'd just be wasting it. When would you resume fertilization?

Quentyn Young

So with my container citrus, I probably will stop maybe in November and I'll start again in February.

Farmer Fred

And yeah, there is always a danger of frost killing off new growth. but depending upon your zone and your risk and your microclimate, you might be okay.

Quentyn Young

Yeah, definitely. My citrus, I haven't really covered them in the last couple of years. So overall, they're doing really great over the winter.

Farmer Fred

A lot of area gardeners want to know how you're having success with avocado trees.

Quentyn Young

They're just doing really well. They're new ones. They've only been in the ground for a year. So I'm hoping to see some flowers next year, but it's probably going to take a couple of years before we get some flower and fruit production. But we do have a Bacon avocado on one of our avocados that's in the tropical hut.

Farmer Fred

All right. And it could take, what, five to seven years to get full production on it?

Quentyn Young

Easy, yeah. A good five to seven years. You've got to be patient.

Farmer Fred

So there are some more cold-hardy avocados worth planting. You mentioned the Bacon. Zutano comes to mind.

Quentyn Young

A lot of the Mexican ones, Zutano, Fuerte, Mexicola, Mexicola Grande. The Bacon is a Mexican hybrid, and so is Hass, and we have both of those.

Farmer Fred

Now, people may be a little surprised at the taste of some of those. They're not what you'd find in a grocery store.

Quentyn Young

Depending on where you find them, if you find them in a local farmer's market, what I like about the Mexicola Grande is you can actually eat the skin. It's a really thin-skinned one. But definitely try it first. I tried a Guatemalan avocado the other week, and I did not like the flavor at all. So it's very subjective. So if you can find a named variety at your grocery store or farmer's market, try it and see what you think.

Farmer Fred

Commercially here in California, the Hass has reigned supreme for decades. Is that recommended for here?

Quentyn Young

Yeah, it does really well here. Like I said, it's a Mexican hybrid. And my understanding is a lot of commercial growers, when they are trialing new strains, will grow Hass side by side because if the Hass produces and the new strains don't, then they think it might be a strain issue and not an environmental issue.

Farmer Fred

While I was walking through the orchard today, I noticed an unusual citrus variety, or maybe it's not a citrus variety. The Australian finger lime.

Quentyn Young

The finger lime, and that's the only true tropical citrus. All the other ones are subtropical, but that is an unusual one. It's a really pretty landscaping tree. It's got those kind of delicate kind of feathery leaves, but it's a really unusual citrus for sure.

Farmer Fred

And you use it for a garnish?

Quentyn Young

You can use it for a garnish. My mom actually just eats them whole like you would a kumquat, but they are kind of sour, Like a lime.

Farmer Fred

All right, so we're changing seasons here as we go into fall. the tasks change. And of course, mulch.

Quentyn Young

Yeah, add mulch and start thinking about if you're going to be getting new fruit trees, think about where you're going to put them. Think about where you're going to dig that hole because before you know it, bare root fruit trees are going to be in the stores.

Farmer Fred

That's right. And give them plenty of room.

Quentyn Young

Give them room and just make sure you have a place to put them.

Farmer Fred

There we go. Quentyn Young, Master Gardener, thanks for the great fall garden tips.

Quentyn Young

You’re welcome, Fred.

FARMER FRED’S RIDE FOR THE KIDS

I'm fundraising on behalf of the 2025 Sac Century Challenge on Saturday, October 4 to raise money for the Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery, and I could use your support.Here’s the link. On that date, I’ll probably be riding my new (and probably last) bike, the FRED OTL (a custom Haley titanium bike, NOT an e-bike). “OTL” - in bike race parlance - stands for “Outside Time Limit”…participants who were sent home for being “dead ass last”. I never said I was fast. But I do persevere to the end. The journey of 100 miles along the Sacramento River is to help out the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery. I’ve ridden 100 miles in one day plenty of times…when I was younger. But at 74, and with a few health setbacks in 2025, I could use some moral support, and the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery can use your pledge money.  So, how about it? Maybe pledge 10 cents a mile (that’s $10) along with a hearty, “You go, Fred!” Or a more generous one dollar a mile ($100), to give me the mental endurance for the entire ride, to dodge the pothole-filled levee roads and pedal harder in the ferocious headwinds that makes this ride a real challenge! The Sacramento Children's Home Crisis Nursery is the only program of its kind in Sacramento County and directly prevents child abuse and neglect by supporting families with small children at times of crisis. The nursery allows parents to bring their children ages newborn to five for emergency hourly or overnight care during difficult times, with the goal of keeping families together and reducing the number of children entering foster care. To care for our community's most vulnerable children, we rely on support from community members like you. By donating, you empower us to provide a safe haven for children throughout the Sacramento area, offering respite to parents during times of crisis, and building a strong support system for the future. Your support helps provide a safe place to stay local kids in need. Again, here’s the link to make a donationto the Sacramento Children’s Home Crisis Nursery.Thank you for your support, and say "Hi!" if you see me pedaling like crazy out there on Saturday, October 4th!

HOW TO WATER, Pt. 1

Farmer Fred

If for some reason you ever got a job at a nursery, one of the first things they will teach you, and they will spend a lot of time, if it's a good nursery, teaching you how to water the plants. So let's talk to somebody who's worked at a nursery and has actually taught people too. It must be Debbie Flower, America's favorite retired college horticultural professor. How to water your garden. Yeah. We're talking new plantings of seeds or young plants in containers. We're talking sprinklers versus drip or container watering or in bed watering.

Debbie Flower

Did you set up the guest room? Because this is a big topic. I'm going to be here a while.

Farmer Fred

All right. I know. Yes. I think if we just cover the hazardous materials part we will be good. And I will start with the seeds. You want to keep a seed bed evenly moist, the directions will tell you that any time you plant seeds.

Debbie Flower

Yes. Just keep the seed bed evenly moist.

Farmer Fred

Well, how the heck do you do that if it's a little seed and it's only maybe a quarter inch deep.

Debbie Flower

A pretty foolproof way is to water from the bottom, put the plants in a container. I've gotten those aluminum roasting pans at the inexpensive store and I put the little containers, six packs or this year I'm using some peat pellets in that container and put the water in the bottom of the container, let it be absorbed, come back later in an hour or two to see if there's still water in it. I want to dump it out. If they've used up the water, I'll add a little more and see if they absorb that. So I want the entire depth of the media to be moist, but I don't want them sitting in water. I have drowned seeds by having them sit in water.

Farmer Fred

You started them in peat pots.

Debbie Flower

I did.

Farmer Fred

Tell me about that.

Debbie Flower

Well, those are the ones I drowned because I went out of town and I started Zinnias and desert wildflowers, I think, in peat pots because they don't like to be transplanted. They survive it, but they suffer a little bit. So I thought, well, I'll give this a try. First of all, finding reasonably priced peat pots was difficult. Really? Yes. Most of them are now infused with mycorrhizae of some sort and I don't want to pay for that and I don't need that. My seeds are going to do just fine germinating without all that stuff. And peat pots come in different sizes. It's another thing to be aware of. You can get very small ones, you can get bigger ones.

Farmer Fred

You said you started in peat pellets.

Debbie Flower

Peat pellets, yes.

Farmer Fred

Tell us the difference between a peat pellet and a peat pot.

Debbie Flower

Right, sorry about that. A peat pot is a pot shaped like, they're usually round, shaped like a little plastic pot, same size, but it's compressed peat moss. And they're the kind of pot that sometimes you can buy your plants in them. And if you do, they'll say you can plant the pot and everything with it.

I would never do that. At least not without totally slicing down the sides in maybe six places and several X's across the bottom because the compressed peat moss causes water problems around the roots of the plants when you put it in the ground. So I would slice it up as much as possible if I couldn't get the plant out and just plant it without the peat pot. They also come as coir. You can get coir pots, you can get cow poop pots. There are a lot of organic pots. They're all pretty much the same in terms of what you do when you plant them. We tried the coir pots at school for plants we sold at our plant sale. And I would always schedule about nine weeks between the first seeds we would start growing. And those were usually in flats to selling. And so they transplant over time as they needed, to bigger pots and bigger pots. These were about  in four inch coir pots. They didn't make it. They couldn't stand up, physically stand up, long enough to sell them. They would just keel over in the pots themselves.

Peat pots are a little more sturdy than coir pots. But I used peat pellets. Peat pellets are netting with a peat moss, I think it's just straight peat moss in them and they're dried and compressed. And so it looked like a little wafer. With a divot in the middle.  The first things I ever planted from seed I did into peat pellets and I had a little tiny greenhouse that held six peat pellets.

Farmer Fred

That’s a small greenhouse.

Debbie Flower

Greenhouse, quote unquote, yeah.

It was a yellow base and then a clear top of rigid plastic. And up until about six months ago, I still had it. I've broke the top finally. This was like 60 years ago that I did this. And you put the pellets in a solid container bottom and put water in and they will expand. They rise up and then as they get hydrated and then you plant the seeds in them. And that's what I used this year was the peat pellets to put things in that don't like to have their roots messed with.

Farmer Fred

I've never planted with peat pellets. As it expands, does it close at the top and enclose the seed that you put in that divot?

Debbie Flower

I did what I usually do, which is make my own little divot with  a chopstick, and put the seed in and cover it over with using my fingers. The divot is there. Sometimes it's on a sort of cattywampus because it didn't expand or the divot wasn't in exactly the right spot.

Farmer Fred

But then with the idea, when you buy this peat pellet, it's got a smooth top and you're supposed to put a seed on top of it and then water it from the bottom?

Debbie Flower

You can water it from wherever you want, but you have to water it from the bottom to get hydrated first. Yeah.  So you water it first before you plant the seed, and it expands. Then I plant the seed.  I put these peat pellets in a container that didn't drain and I put a dome, clear plastic dome over it, but that dome has air holes you can open.

And I opened the top air hole and the sides because I wanted some airflow and put it in the greenhouse. Well, the greenhouse has automatic overhead irrigation. I went on vacation for a week. I came back and they're floating because they got too wet. So, I got two zinnias out of it.

Farmer Fred

How sad.

Debbie Flower

Yes, I have to replant. But you know, life is like this and as a gardener, it's like, oh, now I know what I did wrong.

Farmer Fred

I just happened to get a package of 100 Zowie Yellow Flame zinnia seeds if you want.

Debbie Flower

Oh wow. Zowie.  Sure, I'll take a few. I just got a cactus mix, one packet. And I have some left. So, I'll try again. I'll just be later. And that's okay. So, watering from the bottom is easy and not very stressful. When I plant in general, if I plant seeds like I did my tomatoes. I did some statice. I decided I wanted some statice to create flowers that you can dry very easily and I wanted a bouquet in the house. The bouquet I had in the house of statice was probably 20 years old.

Farmer Fred

That's a sturdy plant.

Debbie Flower

Yes, they're good dried flowers. I just start in six packs, which I have washed, and put the media in and the media is moist when it goes in. Create the hole for the seed, put the seed in, cover it over. Then I put a layer of vermiculite over the top. Not a thick layer, maybe an eighth of an inch.

Vermiculite helps hold moisture over the seed and that's a critical thing, as you said, keep the seed bed moist after planting. I'll do it if I direct seed, plant it outside, I’ll put vermiculite over the place where I planted the seed out in the field as well. Because of its structure, it's like an accordion. It's made from expanded mica. Mica is a rock, it's been heated and it expands like an accordion, so it has all those ins and outs and water gets trapped in there, it helps keep the soil moist so the seed will germinate.

Farmer Fred

I wonder if that's the primary ingredient in these packages I see that are labeled “seed coating”. It's like something that you would put on top of a seed that you had scattered, like grass seed or something like that.

Debbie Flower

Often sometimes for like, if you buy one of those packets to fix a bare spot in your lawn, it's more like a mushed up newspaper.

Farmer Fred

But this looks just like a seed starting mix really. Oh. But I'm thinking, well, maybe it's primarily vermiculite, which it could be.

Debbie Flower

Well, that would work.  And it disappears. It's shiny when you put it on, but over time it gets dirty and it's a rock. It disappears into the soil.

Farmer Fred

So it protects the seed and hydrates the seed.

Debbie Flower

I wouldn't say it hydrates the seed as much as it slows down the loss of moisture from the soil and it holds some moisture itself. And then I use a water breaker on the end of my hose.

I have a wand, a watering wand, on the end of my hose and then a breaker. A watering can nozzle is called a rose and it's the thing that's on the end of the watering can. You can unscrew it, but it has a lot of holes in it. A fine breaker has many holes. You can get them 300, 500, 1000.  And I turn the water on fairly strongly and I turn the breaker up in the air and stand back, away from the plants and let the water come down as if it's a rainstorm.

Farmer Fred

So there's a long stem on this.

Debbie Flower

Yes, I have this wand. This three foot wand. Otherwise I'd be under the rain.  Some days that's OK, but usually not seed starting season. So it is less force on that soil by turning that wand upside down and letting the water go up first and then come down.

Farmer Fred

Theoretically.

Debbie Flower

OK, but that may not be true. I haven't done the physics calculations on it, the further the water falls, it may be harder. But that's what I do. Other people probably do other things. You have to create a system that works for you that doesn't cause, and this, I had to work with students on this over and over and over again, doesn't cause the seeds to come flying right out of the soil mix, that's the whole idea. Don't dislodge the seed when you water. So it has to be something gentle.

Farmer Fred

I've mentioned this before. What I'm using is a dedicated, one gallon sprayer with a spray nozzle on the end that produces a fine spray and it's got like a 45 degree angle to it. And so basically I just use it for water and for new seedlings. And I just easily coat the top of the little seed bed every day or so with that.

Debbie Flower

That would work great for in the field too, not just in containers.

Farmer Fred

All right, so we've taken care of seeds as far as keeping them in place and yet keeping them hydrated. What about plants in containers, young plants in containers especially. Again, maybe the six pack you just bought of plants. I don't know how you water a six pack of plants with all the foliage that it might have. How the heck do you get the water into those little tiny containers?

Debbie Flower

Right, and that's where the training comes in. You learn how to water, correctly. How to water a plant. I would show the students a video from DRAMM, D -R -A -M -M, which is a company that makes watering devices for the horticulture industry as well as homeowners. And they have videos on the internet that you can watch. And there's one where the host is figuring out how much water is needed to be applied to a one gallon perennial. I don't remember the plant. You need to water the entire column of soil, from top to bottom, whether it's a six pack or a one gallon or a 15 gallon, you need water to start at the top and wet the entire media. One point he makes is that you have to water each container. So the video is done in a greenhouse and there are lots of plants on the ground in containers. You have to go to each container. You don't just hold the hose over the top and swing it back and forth and hope everybody gets water. Like you said, there are leaves that are gonna direct the water away from the center of the plant.

That's one of the jobs of leaves and it's so that the plant doesn't rot. You have to get under those leaves or between those leaves.

Farmer Fred

And again, they're using that rosette sprayer. Yes. That multi -hole contraption that emulates a shower, a gentle shower. Yes. That's the key. Right.

Debbie Flower

And in the video, he counts how long he's over each plant. He does a bunch of plants and he just counts to three; and a bunch that he counts to six; and a bunch that he counts to nine, for example. I don't remember the exact numbers. He lets them sit so the water will go in. You want to fill the head space, which is the space between the media and the top of the container. And in most cases, that's enough water to wet the whole column of soil in the container, and you want some to come out the bottom. So after he does his timed thing, his counting thing, he un-pots the plants and of course, the ones done with just the count of three were not wet all the way through. So then he knows that he has to do a siix or nine count over each plant. And you just walk around and you count and you make sure. Now, we didn't do those experiments when I worked at a nursery. I just walked from plant to plant and made sure that the whole headspace was full of water before I moved on to the next plant. And then I'd watch to see that some came out the bottom. The sum of the water coming out the bottom can be a false positive, so to speak, because if the plant has been allowed to dry out too much, the media has shrunk and the water will take the easiest way, which is around the shrunken media and out the bottom holes. In that case, then you need to water from the bottom, like we talked about with seedlings. Put them in some kind of a container that doesn't drain, fill it with water, and allow the plant to suck it up from the bottom and rehydrate.

Farmer Fred