Tips for Reusing Old Potting Soil. Growing Pawpaws

Show Transcript

GB 194 Reusing Old Potting Soil. Pawpaws. TRANSCRIPT

Farmer Fred  0:00  

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred. Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.     

Farmer Fred  0:31  

We’ve reached that point in the gardening year where people have more plants than space in the garden.  So, out come the pots that have been sitting behind the garage! Which brings up a perennially popular question: can you reuse old potting soil successfully? America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, says, yes, you can…if you take certain precautions. She has tips for reusing that old potting soil. Would you like to grow paw paws? It’s a southern U.S. favorite, but it is also known as the Michigan Banana. It’s worth a try everywhere. Master Gardener Quentin Young tells us how to grow this hardy tropical plant for outstanding results.  We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots. And we will do it all in under 30 minutes. Let’s go!

Farmer Fred  1:33  

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. A lot of ways you can get your questions in. You could just do a simple email to Fred at farmerfred.com. You could go to our website, garden basics.net and leave a question there. You can call us 916-292-8964. You can also text us at that number. Maybe you have pictures you want to include. And you can always go to speak pipe.com/garden basics, where you can leave us an audio question without making a phone call. That's speakpipe.com/garden basics. Laura in Sacramento sends us an old fashioned email, to Fred at farmerfred.com. Debbie Flower is here, America's Favorite retired College Horticultural Professor who helps us answer these questions on the Garden Basics podcast. Thank you again, Debbie for indulging my hobby.

Debbie Flower  2:22  

You're welcome. It's my hobby too. Not the podcast but the gardening part. Yeah, exactly.

Farmer Fred  2:27  

Just because you're retired doesn't mean your brain is dead, right? Yes. Keep that knowledge working. That's all I'm trying to do, is keep you alive.

Debbie Flower  2:36  

I appreciate that. Keep my brain working.

Farmer Fred  2:38  

Yes, exactly. I don't want you beginning to drool.  All right, Laura writes and she says, "I'm asking for your assistance with vegetable planting in my various size pots. I have 11 pots in my yard for basil, parsley, chives, jalapeno peppers, and of course, tomatoes. I went to Home... well, you know that big store... to pick up some basil plants, parsley, and one jalapeno pepper. Several years ago, I planted in the same pots and I'm using the same dirt. Would you recommend me to plant in the same pots this year? Do I have to buy all new potting soil? Or can I refresh the dirt in the pots that I have?" Debbie Flower, my first question is: what's the difference between dirt and soil?

Debbie Flower  3:23  

Well, my definition is that dirt is soil out of place.

Farmer Fred  3:27  

Sort of like a weed is a plant out of place. 

Debbie Flower  3:28  

Yeah, right. So I would call this soil. Whereas dirt is something you want to get rid of. It's container soil and it does not contain, in general, the minerals that we find in field soil, meaning the rock particles, but rock particles are pretty good to have in container soil. I have gotten the same question from friends. Can I use the same media that I have in containers over and over again? And my answer is yes, I do it all the time. When I was teaching at one of the locations we actually had a soil steamer and we could take the media out of pots, put it in the steamer, there are directions. It told you how long to put it in there, and it would sterilize  the soil in case there were any diseases, insects, seeds, living things in that soil. So when you reused it, it would not have those potential inhabitants in it.

Farmer Fred  4:24  

This is much along the same lines as solarizing your soil in the summer.

Debbie Flower  4:28  

Take it up to a really high temperature to kill everything, 140 degrees and start all over again.  What I found when I used that was that the pH or the alkalinity slash acidity of the soil was very high, because this was fertilized soil container soil where we were actively growing plants in a greenhouse so they were growing fairly fast. They needed nutrition fairly regularly. And so there would be a lot of fertilizer in the soil once we dumped the plant. So I had to correct that. And I corrected it with sulfur. Soil sulfur is very acidic. And it takes a little time to work, months.  So I would have a can of soil with sulfur in it and I would check the pH regularly, turn it sometimes, as a little oxygen is always helpful and bring the pH back down to neutral, which is around seven. And then we would reuse the media. That was only at the one place where I had that machine. Everywhere else, we have reused soil, some cases, we made hypertufa pots out of it. But at my house, I grow things in it. I reuse the media. So I take the plant out, dump the contents of the container, and you find it's kind of hard as a rock. Especially if it dried out. Not as hard  as a rock, but hard, firm. There can be lots of roots in it that are all the way in the bottom, there can be the bottom of the plant, maybe some buried stem, whatever, maybe an ant colony, maybe an ant colony. I dumped one once at school and it was full of slug eggs, was an amazing sight, never saw it another time. So I pull out as much of that bigger debris as possible. And that could go to the compost pile. I use kitty litter bins, I put it in the kitty litter bin, and empty all the other containers. Why am I doing this? Because container media breaks down over time. It is primarily organic matter and organic matter breaks down with live organisms. And yes, they do get into containers and they chew up the media particles so the particles get smaller and smaller and they get packed closer and closer together. And the pore space that used to be between the particles gets smaller and smaller. So there are fewer places for roots to grow, fewer places for oxygen, and fewer places for water to be. And that will stunt your growth. Then I mix it with a little bit of new media. So if I put in a cup of used media, I might put in a half cup of new container media. And I also like to add a rock product. As I said rock is not so bad in containers. It helps keep the media open and allows water and air and roots to travel through it more easily. And so I use pumice, you might find it in a bag. Unfortunately, I can only find it in small bags. You can use perlite, if you use perlite, please wet it first. And don't breathe it in. You can use sand, horticultural sand is sized. And so that works. And mix it all together. Couple of things you have to be careful of: if the plant died of a disease, you may not want to reuse that media, you may just want to throw it in your yard someplace. And so how would you know that? Well, if the plant is still there, and the soil is still moist, if it smells bad, if the soil smells bad, like low tide or dead fish, then you've got rot going on and you don't want to transfer that to another plant

Farmer Fred  7:51  

And check your pot for drainage holes.

Debbie Flower  7:53  

Yes. And see why there is standing water. If the media turned gray, then you've had standing water. But that's really not common in container soils. Unless you don't have drainage holes. The other thing she talked about were peppers and tomatoes that she grows regularly in containers. After several years, I would isolate that media and use it for something else, use for the herbs that she talked about. Because there are diseases of tomatoes and things in the solanaceae family. So tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, tobacco. If you happen to grow tobacco, that is kind of a fun plant to grow. Tomatillos, they share diseases and so they can build up in the soil over time. So, particularly if your plant showed any symptoms, don't replant those plants in that soil.

Farmer Fred  8:41  

Being an experimental kind of gal like you are, did you ever try taking old potting soil, spreading it out on a cookie tray and sticking it in an oven for a certain amount of time?

Debbie Flower  8:52  

I think I have done that. And it stunk. But it works. You can sterilize it that way. It's slow, because you can't get a lot in the oven at the same time, right? It's not a real high temperature. In my memory, it was less than 200. Well,  I think ovens only do 200, such as my oven. Yeah, you can't get lower than 200 in my oven anyway. And it's a slow process. And it stinks up the house, but that's a way to sterilize it. Yes.

Farmer Fred  9:20  

What about putting the soil on cookie trays, covering it with clear plastic, and setting it out in a sunny yard on a hot day?

Debbie Flower  9:27  

You could basically solarize it. You can do as deep as four inches. It should be moist in a container that is totally surrounded by the plastic or has a solid bottom because you don't want air getting in from the bottom. You want it to heat up and it's going to have to stay hot for a while, for weeks. All right. Well, that's one option but it is one option. ,

Farmer Fred  9:48  

Yeah, okay, if you do have those disease issues. 

Farmer Fred  9:55  

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Farmer Fred  11:51  

I don't recall you mentioning that you hydrate the soil again.

Debbie Flower  11:55  

I always hydrate soil before I put it back in the next container. So in my kitty litter box, I have the old media, I have the new added media and I don't use Miracle Gro. I don't. But if it works for you, it works for you. I fertilize differently. And then the rock product I have at the time, mix it all together, moisten it and mix it some more, till it's like a wrung out sponge, it can take quite a bit of action by my hands, I have to turn it and and squeeze. So, I'll wear those gloves,

Farmer Fred  12:24  

I see dirt under your fingernails. 

Debbie Flower  12:25  

I was trying to clean it out on the way here.

Farmer Fred  12:28  

Oh yes, we're very critical of that here.

Debbie Flower  12:32  

And the other fingers that have no nails because I've broken them up. Yeah, I don't always wear the gloves. It's nice to have reusable rubber gloves, whatever they make it out of, that you can submerge and get wet. And it's not an issue for your gloves or your hands. 

Farmer Fred  12:46  

You have gotten me into the habit, though, of using those nice big five gallon buckets that they offer at the big box stores, getting several of those and I put my old potting soil in that and maybe mix in, like you would, some new potting soil, mix it all together, and then fill that bucket with water and let it sit overnight in the water. 

Debbie Flower  13:07  

Oh, there you go. 

Farmer Fred  13:08  

And then the next day, take that soil with my bare hands because I don't care if I got dirt under my fingernails, and just take big handfuls of that soil and stick it into a black plastic pot that has drain holes, and let it drain that way for a day or so and then reuse it.

Debbie Flower  13:24  

Soaking it is a good practice because a lot of the container media has peat moss or coir in it. You can flip the bag over and there will be a list of stuff that it is made out of. Sometimes it's not really specific. 

Farmer Fred  13:38  

forest byproducts. 

Debbie Flower  13:39  

Forest byproducts, Yes, very common. But typically, if it has peat moss or coir, they will be listed. And so those things once they dry out, they're difficult to rewet. So soaking is the way to get them rewet.

Farmer Fred  13:52  

Yeah, and then you can plant to your heart's content. I like the idea of using that filler, such as pumice, to help maintain the oxygen in there because those particles can tend to break down and get more compacted and you lose that air. And when you lose air, you're losing, like you said, space for the roots to grow, space for the microbes to do whatever they do.

Debbie Flower  14:14  

Yes, it is it buys you time that plant can live in that container longer than it would if you did not put those products in there, and they're reusable as well. When that plant is done, then reuse that media. The thing to watch for is signs of salt buildup. Salt buildup would look like brown edges on leaves, that can also be due to drying and low humidity. So where the plant is, how much wind it's getting, how much sun it's getting, how much water it is or isn't getting, will be a factor in that. So keep that in mind. But the other is iron deficiency. And iron deficiency shows as green veins and yellow between. Other things do too, but if it gets really bad, it's probably iron. Iron gets tied up in the media when your pH gets too high, it becomes too alkaline. And if you use a lot of fertilizer and the plant died, and there's still lots of fertilizer in the media, and you reuse the media, and then you do the same thing and reuse the media, you can build up salts or fertilizers in the media. The way to get rid of that, and your process may do it, is to leach it, wash, clear water through it. So if you're leaving your water behind, say pouring it in a raised bed or something, the fertilizers that are going to be real dangerous are the salts, they're water soluble, they'll be in the water, not in the media. And you don't have that problem.

Farmer Fred  15:34  

Would salts occur in both synthetic and organic fertilizers?

Debbie Flower  15:38  

Yes, salts are the form that the plant can take the fertilizer into itself. In synthetic fertilizers, everything's there, it's available to the plant right now. And so it's in the salt form. In organic fertilizers , that often has something that has to break down, the microbes have to act on the fish particles or whatever and break it down and release the salts. And so you tend to have fewer salts at any time. But you'll have salts. Yes.

Farmer Fred  16:07  

And as far as the fertilizer that you would add to that new mix, are you using a time release fertilizer?

Debbie Flower  16:12  

I typically put time release fertilizer in at a rate lower than the label suggests. You can always add fertilizer as a top dress, but you can't take it out once it's in the media. And there are other ways. You can buy bat guano. You can buy cottonseed meal. You can buy organic sources of fertilizer, you can buy granular organic fertilizer and mix that in. But don't put too much in. Stay below what is recommended for the quantity of media you're using.

Farmer Fred  16:42  

The white ring that you sometimes see on the outside of ceramic pots where you're growing a plant, is that salt?

Debbie Flower  16:48  

That's salt, right. That's excess fertilizers that had been applied, and the plant hasn't used them. And so they're washing through that porous pot. Don't get upset. I don't know anybody who doesn't have that on their ceramic pots, it's not that you're necessarily applying too much, it's that the plant is just not using everything available to it and has nowhere else to go. In the landscape, it would wash through to other areas, but in a container, it has nowhere else to go.

Farmer Fred  17:19  

Can you leach salts from a potted plant? 

Debbie Flower  17:23  

Yes, you can. Flush them with clear water. Clear, clean water that doesn't have any salts of its own. And there are wells in places in the state of California where your water has fertilizer salts in it.  So that's not going to be helpful. . And if you have a water softener, don't use tap water from in the house. That's not going to be helpful. So if you collect rainwater, that's great, or if you know the quality, and you should, I believe there are laws that say at least in California, that your water supplier has to let you know what's in your water. It may not answer all the questions you need to know. 

Farmer Fred  18:01  

But I am always leery of housing developments that go in here in California. And I'm sure it's going on elsewhere in the nation too, with purple pipe in backyards. Purple pipe being reconstituted, recycled water, waste water, gray water that has been triple filtered, and then returned to the homeowner for use in the yard. And it usually comes with the warning, "don't drink it". Now, wait a minute, if I can't drink it, you want me to put it on my plants? What's in it?

Debbie Flower  18:30  

Right. I only have peripheral experience with this. My husband worked cleaning up polluted water. That was his career. And in the state of California. He said he had to learn the standards to which he was required to clean it up. And this water just went into the river. He tried to get the government to let them put it in a carwash. They would not. But the water was cleaned up to be cleaner than drinking water standards. I don't know if that's everywhere.

Farmer Fred  19:04  

No, that was a Superfund site.

Debbie Flower  19:06  

It was a Superfund site. Right. Right. I would be more wary of it if I were on creek water. Because you don't know what's upstream. If there's a cow or if there's  somebody who cleans carpets and dumps their dirty water into the creek. The purple pipe water, I wouldn't drink. I don't think that's wise. But I would be less worried about putting that on my plants that I would creek water, water that's exposed to the environment.

Farmer Fred  19:33  

Probably for most people, if they have a year round supply of rainwater, there are rain barrels. 

Debbie Flower  19:38  

Oh, that'd be excellent. 

Farmer Fred  19:39  

Yeah. So you know,  if you're still one of those few states that still gets rain, do that.

Debbie Flower  19:46  

Yes, my brother in law just left. He visited for a few days and he lives in Hawaii. And that's how he gets his water. 

Farmer Fred  19:52  

Yeah, that's actually fairly commonplace in Hawaii, too, because their rain comes in fits and starts and you better have a way of keeping it around.

Debbie Flower  20:00  

Right, I have many watering cans around my yard and I keep them full. Why? Number one, so my cats have water to drink. But number two, because then the volatile chlorine can move out of the water. And that's helpful for the plants. 

Farmer Fred  20:16  

And what about mosquitoes? 

Debbie Flower  20:19  

Well, there are mosquito dunks, they're dunks for ponds there are compressed a couple inches across. But there are bits you can also get, and you can put those in the water. Doesn't harm the cats, other wildlife comes and drinks out of my watering cans as well. Doesn't harm anything, doesn't harm fish. Just harms mosquitoes. It's specific to the larva of mosquito insects. And so put those in.

Farmer Fred  20:42  

So that's one thing to keep in mind if you do have standing water around in your yard for whatever purpose, and that could be even in a catch tray underneath your potted plants.  Either dump that water out on a regular basis, or put some bits, mosquito dunks and BT into it.

Debbie Flower  20:58  

Yes, I put the mosquito dunks, the bits, in the basins as well. 

Farmer Fred  21:03  

Yeah, I said BT. That refers to bacillus thuringiensis.  I'll try to say it, Bacillus thuringiensis. And I think the correct species is Bacillus thuringiensis israeliensis.

Debbie Flower  21:16  

I believe you're right. There are different species of Bacillus thuringiensis. And it is used for hornworms and things like that as well. Worms in the corn, that kind of stuff. So the one for mosquitoes is a specific one, it'll say that on the label.

Farmer Fred  21:31  

Yeah, you can find it at any good nursery. All right. Well, we hope that solves your problem about reusing soil, Laura. You certainly can. Just treat it right, and you can be replanting,

Debbie Flower  21:44  

yeah. Save money. 

Farmer Fred  21:45  

Debbie Flower. Thanks for your help on this. 

Debbie Flower  21:47  

Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you, Fred.

Farmer Fred  21:53  

Recently, in episode 191, we talked with Garden Author Robert Kourik about creating a Sustainable Food Garden. One of his keys to success: attracting beneficial insects to your yard, to go after the bad bugs. But those beneficials need certain plants to call home. In this week’s (Friday. May 20) edition of the Garden Basics Newsletter, “Beyond the Basics”, we continue building the good bug hotel. In the last issue, we listed the plants that lady bugs, lacewings and hoverflies need to raise their families. This week, we cover several more beneficials that would enjoy munching on the bad bugs in your garden. Plus, we show you what they look like in all their life stages, and the plants that they are attracted to. It’s in the newsletter that goes beyond the basics, the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, Beyond the Basics newsletter. Find it via the link in today’s show notes, or visit our new website, Garden Basics dot net . There, you can find a link to the newsletter in one of the tabs on the top of the page, also, you can listen to any of our previous editions of the podcast, and read an enhanced transcript of the podcast episode you are now listening to. That’s at Garden Basics dot net, where you can also link to the Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics, and it’s free. Look for it on Friday, May 20th. Take a deeper dive into gardening, with the Beyond the Basics newsletter. Find it at garden basics dot net or at garden basics dot substack dot com. Thanks for listening and thanks for reading!

Farmer Fred  21:54  

How a quick tip about Pawpaws. We're at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center with Quentyn Young. He's a Master Gardener. He's also the manager of Fair Oaks Boulevard Nursery in the Sacramento area. We are standing by the Pawpaw. Have you ever grown a pawpaw? Ah, me neither, but maybe we should try. Now Quintyn is a man of many tastebuds, and Pawpaws are an old fruit to him. Tell us about the Pawpaw.

Quentyn Young  23:47  

So these are native to the east coast of the US, and they're supposedly the last remaining custard apple that you'll find in the northern hemisphere. 

Farmer Fred  23:57  

A custard apple. 

Quentyn Young  23:58  

Yes, it has sort of a texture like a custard, sort of elongated green fruit. It's got some large seeds in the center. It's got a smooth consistency that reminds me a bit of a papaya and it's kind of a combination of mango and pineapple flavors.

Farmer Fred  24:15  

The shrub itself , it is a small tree or shrub, it reminds me of a fig, it has that sort of look to it, the coloration of it. And the way it branches and the big leaves. When does it fruit, when do you harvest it?

Quentyn Young  24:29  

You can see on that we've already got some clusters of fruit, we're going to harvest them at the end of the summer. And this is another fruit that was forgotten about for a long time unless you knew where to maybe find them in the woods or in somebody's backyard. They've become sort of trendy again. You'll see them online with different recipes and things, but they're a good understory plant and because they are native to the east coast, here in Sacramento, we usually recommend you try to give them a little bit of afternoon shade.

Farmer Fred  24:58  

This doesn't look like it's very happy here. There's a lot of blank spots on it where leaves used to be or...

Quentyn Young  25:04  

It's just really slow to wake up.  I was just scratching some of the branches and they're still green. It's taking a really long time to leaf out.

Farmer Fred  25:13  

Alright, we're in mid-May here now, so just be patient with it. Is there any danger of sunburn, but I guess if you have it in afternoon shade, then that's a moot point. 

Quentyn Young  25:22  

Yeah, sunburn or windburn. They do like regular water. And they do appreciate really rich soil. So you want to work in some good amendments and probably top dress at least two or three times a year.

Farmer Fred  25:31  

All right, and can you plant it from seed? 

Quentyn Young  25:35  

You could plant it from seed, but you do need two different varieties for cross pollination. So you might want to experiment with how many different seedlings you have to make sure that they cross pollinate. Here we have two varieties, Susquehanna and Shenandoah. But just make sure that you get two different varieties to get some cross-pollination. 

Farmer Fred  25:53  

All right, does it need any insect help? Or is it wind pollinated?

Quentyn Young  25:56  

It seems to be wind pollinated. The flowers come out fairly early, late winter, early spring. And we don't have any, I guess you would say, traditional insects here on the west coast. But we don't seem to have a problem with pollination here.

Farmer Fred  26:10  

All right, and how do you know when to harvest it?

Quentyn Young  26:13  

Basically, it's similar to maybe an avocado or a pear . We will touch them, see if they come off in our hand. If they're soft, sometimes we'll cut them off, and then taste them and see how they are from there.

Farmer Fred  26:25  

Oh, listen, I hear America whispering in my ear asking, "Okay, now what?" What do you do with them?

Quentyn Young  26:30  

You basically cut them open and you scoop out the flesh, you could eat it fresh. And then, like I said, there's lots of recipes for what you can do with Pawpaws online.

Farmer Fred  26:40  

The Paw Paw. Give it a try. By the way, we're at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center where Harvest Day is coming up, the first Saturday in August. It's the big open garden event for the Sacramento County Master Gardeners that run the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. At Harvest Day you're gonna find experts galore here, and anything you're probably growing in your backyard, you're going to find growing here. You're going to get a lot of great information. A lot of good speakers, a lot of good informational booths as well. At the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center in Fair Oaks Park in Sacramento County. I'll have a link in today's show notes about Harvest Day and the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. Quentyn Young, Master Gardener, Fair Oaks Boulevard nursery manager, I bet you have some of these at your nursery.

Quentyn Young  27:20  

We have just a few, and they're gonna be really hard for me to get this year. so prepare to be disappointed, just because so many people have been buying fruit trees and the growers can't keep up with production. But I do try to keep them in stock.

Farmer Fred  27:33  

You have a very interesting selection at Fair Oaks Boulevard nursery of unusual plants. Tropical plants.

Quentyn Young  27:39  

Yeah, we do. We just got in a shipment of two different kinds of tropical bananas. I got two different kinds of papayas, I probably have maybe a dozen varieties of avocados. I've got two kinds of fruiting passionfruit vines, I got sea berries, we got all kinds of stuff.

Farmer Fred  27:54  

Those aren't plants for first year gardeners.

Quentyn Young  27:57  

Well, it depends, you know, where you live? And we can coach you, we can show you what to do to make sure that you're very successful with them. But I always say, if you want to experiment, come to the nursery and see what we have.

Farmer Fred  28:08  

Quentyn Young, thanks for the tips on the pawpaw.

Quentyn Young  28:11  

Of course. Thanks Fred.

Farmer Fred  28:14  

Garden Basics With Farmer Fred comes out every Tuesday and Friday and is brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, visit our website, GardenBasics dot net. That’s where you can find out about the free, Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you so much for listening.