337 How To Choose Nursery Plants. Tips for Starting a School Garden.

Show Transcript

337 TRANSCRIPT Choosing Nursery Plants. Starting a School Garden

Farmer Fred  0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

If you’re the type of gardener that buys flowering plants at a nursery that are covered in blooms, America’s Favorite retired College horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, will explain why you shouldn’t do that. Or, perhaps your a nursery shopper that tends to procrastinate after buying plants, and those flowers and vegetables are sitting on your patio in their original containers until the following weekend, or longer, you’re asking for trouble. But there are some simple solutions to keep those plants healthy until you get around to planting them. How to Choose Nursery Plants is Topic A on today’s Garden Basics podcast.

Also, we have tips for starting an elementary school garden. And you don’t have to be a school teacher to do it. We talk with a couple of very enthusiastic California Master Gardeners who are spreading the word about how to start a school garden.

It’s all in Episode 337 of today’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast: choosing nursery plants, and tips for starting a school garden.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory,  it’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

HOW TO CHOOSE PLANTS AT A NURSERY

Farmer Fred

Well, it's that time of year when a lot of people like to head out to the nursery and get some plants, and I don't blame you. Especially those plants that are putting on a show. And a lot of plants are putting on a show in spring. And it's not a bad idea to buy a plant that has some color on it. Or at least gaze at those plants that have some color on it to know that this is the color you actually want. However, do you really want to buy a plant that's in flower? That's just one of the questions you need to answer before you buy a nursery plant. Debbie Flower is here, America's favorite retired college horticultural professor. And we all love to shop at nurseries. It's fun. I'm not sure how fun nurseries are who see us there though, because we're going to be picking up pots and moving pots and looking at the bottom of pots. And maybe if nobody's looking, pop that plant out, to take a look to see what the roots look like or what critters might be in there. So how do you go about choosing a nursery plant?

Debbie Flower  2:56

Good question. Go into the nursery is always dangerous. I always come home with more than I intended to get. But so the first thing I want to do is read the signs and labels, to find out about this plant. Is it going to do what I want it to do ? Is it going to fit in the place I want it to fit? Is it going to take the conditions I have in mind? Plants don't always do that. I sometimes buy plants that I just love. But really that's what I should be doing, is making sure I have a place for this plant in my garden.

Farmer Fred  3:22

So you don't do impulse buying?

Debbie Flower  3:28

I do do. Right. Yes, we all do. I try. I'm trying to limit them. You know that collection of plants outside my kitchen door? The ones that are all gonna go into the ground someday? Well, I've lived in my house 12 years, and that collection has never gotten smaller. So yeah, I have impulse buys too. But when I buy a plant, I want it to be healthy. I want it to be good color for what it's supposed to be, to not have extra holes in the leaves, or spots on the leaves. Not be sticky to the touch. So I want to touch it. Horticulture is a contact sport. I don't want it to be mushy. That would mean it might be rotting. And I'm going to check it for pests. I’ll look on the top and on the back of the leaves. The back of the leaves is where pests often hang out and hide. And I might not see them, but I might see their poop or their cast skins. Aphids, as they grow, are kind of like a snake. They take off one skin and emerge from it underneath. And they leave their old skins behind. So I'm looking to make sure the plant is healthy. Do I want it in flower? No, I really don't. I want it to be in bud. But if it's in flower now, if I buy the one that has the most open flowers, what's going to happen next week? I'm going to have a plant that will be shocked. Yes, it'll be shocked. It'll drop those flowers and it doesn't have the energy to make any more right now. Because establishing it in the garden or in a bigger pot takes some time and effort on the plant’s part. So if I'm buying something for  the flowers, I want it to be in bud, but preferably not in flower. If I'm suspicious, or it's a mix, sometimes you'll buy mixed colors of zinnias. I know in seed packets, it's that way. So if you know you want a certain color, then yes, have one in bloom, so you know what color you're getting. But not  all the flowers, just mostly in bud.

Farmer Fred  5:23

I'm going to make sure, that on your tombstone, it reads, “horticulture is a contact sport.”

Debbie Flower  5:31

Okay, I’ll go with that.

Farmer Fred  5:34

But yeah, feeling that leaf because  if there's honeydew, or sticky stuff on there, right? That's great. And besides, you might crush a few aphids at the time.

Debbie Flower  5:42

They will come off onto your hands. And you want to look at the media that it's growing in, you want to check if there are any weeds growing, they're not a good sign. Often I've worked in a nursery, and part of the job is to remove those weeds. Sometimes they used to be there, and now they're not. But if they're there, you certainly don't want to purchase the plant, you want to check the height of the media, it shouldn't be all the way to the top of the pot, because that means when they go to water it, the water will just run off and the plant is probably starving for water. Although you'll see wilting in the plant, if that's the case, and you don't want that plant. And you don't want it super low. If it's super low, and this would apply more to perennials, maybe an azalea shrub in spring, it's been in that container for too long, which means it's probably rootbound because the container media decomposes over time and it sinks. So if it's more than an inch and a half down in the pot, I would start to worry about it.

Farmer Fred  6:39

And chances are if you pop that one out of the plant, you would see roots going round and round and round.

Debbie Flower  6:44

Right, that's the next way to look at the media, is to pop it right out of the pot, you may see roots of weeds, some of the oxalises have colored roots that is different than the color of the roots of the plant, you might see those, they tend to run down the side of the container media, you might see the roots going round and round and round inside the pot, you do want to see roots coming to the edge of the media right up under the pot so that you know it's well rooted in. You're getting what you're paying for. But you don't want to see a whole lot of them coming out the drain holes, because that again means it's in a pot that's too small for it.

Farmer Fred  7:22

Oh boy, does that ever tick me off when you might go to say, a plant sale at a college or something. And you're paying for a one gallon potted plant, and you get it home and you take it out to put it in the ground and all that comes out is like three, four inches worth of roots. So they had probably stuck that in a one gallon pot the day before the sale. Right.

Debbie Flower  7:45

And you paid for the one gallon? Yeah. And you're done. All you got for it was loose media. Yeah, you got a four inch plant. Yes, that's actually technically illegal. The law says you have to have the roots up to the edge.

Farmer Fred  7:59

Really? I don't think everybody knows that. I don't think it gets enforced very often.

Debbie Flower  8:04

Right now. But yes, there are plant police. But they're usually hired by companies that have patented plants, and they're coming around to see if you're illegally propagating patented plants. But anyway, back to the spying. If it's a woody plant, then pull up on the stem while it's in the pot pull up on the stem. If the plant comes, and the media doesn't come with it, it's probably got a circling root underneath it. And you don't want that plant either. Over time that plant will die, it'll choke itself to death.

Farmer Fred  8:36

So you want a plant that is so well established in that container that the roots are touching the inside of the container walls, but not so prolific that they're wrapping around each other. But even that can be solved.

Debbie Flower  8:50

Yes, that can be solved. And it's easier to solve in some plants than in others monocots such as grasses, palms, spider plants, corn,  they can make a whole new root system as needed, takes energy, but they can do it. So they're really easy plants. In fact, if you're a new gardener, starting with ornamental grasses and corn and things like that may be a good choice because root damage is not really a problem with these plants. If you're working with tomato seedlings, small tomato plants, in this case it's an herbaceous plants, not a monocot. And herbaceous plants mean they never form wood. they tend to recover from some root damage during the transplant, you're going to do root damage during the transplant. You can't avoid it. And actually it's kind of a good thing. You want to cut the roots. I like to cut down the four sides and an X across the bottom, not in very deeply, maybe a quarter of an inch.

Farmer Fred  9:58

Would you, in that process of removing it to be planted into the ground, would you have watered that container plant thoroughly first?

Debbie Flower  10:06

I like to have it watered. Yes, there are people who say don't. But I like to have it watered. And I like what I'm planting into to also be watered. So I'd like them to be both moist.

Farmer Fred  10:18

Okay, that makes sense. I am concerned though about some noxious weeds that developed from corns or tubers that might be in that soil. And it's pretty easy to knock the top off of a weed, but sometimes you're leaving behind little babies. And that's always a nasty surprise after a month or two after you got it in the ground. And all of a sudden, wait a minute, we just imported a bad guy. What am I gonna do about that? But what can you do? I mean,  I know Linda Chalker-Scott, who we've had on this program, talks  a lot about washing the roots when you buy a plant and take it home, wash all the soil off.

Debbie Flower  10:59

Right, and I don't do that. She's in Washington, she's in a place that has a milder climate and more water. Although it is somewhat of a Mediterranean climate still, to be on the West Coast of the US. And I am concerned about damaging the roots I have. Also, if I were to do it, I would only want to do it when the plant was dormant.

Farmer Fred  11:22

Yeah. The other thing that some people do is to plant that plant, pot and all, in the pot that they bought it in. Oops. We can get confused about these containers. Speaking of things like maybe fruit trees, or vining plants that might be sold in a pulp pot.

Debbie Flower  11:44

Yes, a pulp pot, or even a ball and burlap.

Farmer Fred  11:49

Yeah. And they say they will break down, but I think it takes way too long.

Debbie Flower  11:54

I agree. And it's creates a change in texture of the soil, or of the media, it's not really soil. The Pulp Pot itself ,being a different texture than the media, the plant is growing and above it, and it's a different texture from the field soil around it. So when water meets a different texture, if possible, it doesn't go through it, meaning if there's another route, if it can stay in the container media that the plant is in and just saturated completely, it will do that until it gets completely full and then push, the next drop of water will push into the pulp pot but  the plant is suffering while that media is saturated. If it's field soil that is getting wet from irrigation or rain or something, it will not enter the Pulp Pot until and get all the way into the media the roots are in, until everything around it has become saturated. And hopefully that doesn't happen in your yard.

Farmer Fred  12:54

I think it's time for the Debbie diatribe about certain vegetables that you want to plant before they get too far along. Oh, and there are vegetables that you will see at nurseries now that are in six packs or even in four inch pots. And they have a lot of growth to them. And for some of those, it would be fatal to try to transplant those.

Debbie Flower  13:17

Well it wouldn't be fatal to the plant it would still survive. It just doesn't produce anything.

Farmer Fred  13:23

It’s fatal to your diet.

Debbie Flower  13:24

Yes, yes. Yes. So you're talking about the cucurbits - the squashes pumpkin, cucumber, - they are best direct seeded. I believe you can and the seed packet will tell you and there are lots of places books, websites and things that will tell you yes, you can germinate them in a pot and then move them to the soil and that's true, you can but the problem is if they have more than about four leaves on them true leaves, okay, the first thing that comes up when they germinate is called the cotyledon or the seed leaf, and it was what was inside the seed. It's shaped much like the seed but it's bigger now because it's full of water and it turns green. But then you get leaves of different shapes, leaves with maybe sharper edges or indentations. They'll look different, the  veining will be different. Those are the true leafs, if you've got more than about four of them, when you put that plant in the ground, it will not reach its maturity that you're hoping for. It'll grow a little bit. I've had them grow to maybe three or four feet long. And they just limp along, never flower, never fruit, once their root system has become bound into that small pot. It doesn't grow out of it, even if you cut the roots when you put it in the ground.

Farmer Fred  14:40

So what's a mother to do?

Debbie Flower  14:42

Start your own; start with seeds. Great project to do with  young kids yeah, direct sow. Probably the reason they get sold is people go out to buy their summer garden plants. They want a tomato, a pepper, a cucumber, a squash, let's say that'd be great combination and an eggplant. All right, the tomatoes and the peppers, you can buy as plants, that's fine, they transplant quite easily, the eggplant as well. But the squash and cucumbers don't do as well. So they're behind, they need to go in the ground when the soil is as warm as what’s needed for the tomato to go in the ground. But they need to go in as a seed. And it's just frustrating. You got this lovely tomato, you got this lovely eggplant, pepper. And then you got these holes in the ground where you put squash and pumpkin seeds, and cucumber seeds.

Farmer Fred  15:35

And then there are those people who keep insisting on buying corn in six packs,

Debbie Flower  15:39

It blew me the way away the first time I saw that.

Farmer Fred  15:43

Yeah, corn really does come up pretty easy from seed. If you plant it in, you know, six inch spacing or so it depends on what varieties of corn you're planting but a lot cheaper that way, it is a lot cheaper. Now there's the case of hitchhikers, who you might be bringing home on the plant, which is another reason to pick up the plant. Look at the pot, look at the underneath of the pot. Look at the surface of the pot, maybe scratch the surface of the soil of the pot, because you don't know who you might find.

Debbie Flower  16:10

Right. One day  when I was teaching, we were moving things from one size container up to the next. And we popped a plant out of a about a three inch. And it was full of these round white slimy things. I'd say a whole third of the media was these round white slimy things. They were slug eggs.

Farmer Fred

How pretty.

Debbie Flower

Yes, yes, students are taking pictures with their phones. It was quite an event, had we not popped it out of the container, we wouldn't have seen them. So popping them out of the container is a legitimate thing to do. But you want to do it correctly. So you don't harm the plant. This isn't yours yet. So you know you break it, you buy it, I guess I don't see those signs at nurseries. But I wouldn't want to break somebody else's merchandise.

Farmer Fred  17:00

The old saw on that was to ask an employee to do it for you.

Debbie Flower  17:05

Yes, if you're worried about it, ask an employee to do it. Otherwise, you just squeezed the container so that the media becomes loose. If the media is very dry, it's going to be the top that may all crumble. If it's  been in newly transplanted media that may fall off the top. But squeeze it all around so that it's loose, then put your hand over the top of the container. Spread your fingers. So the stem of the plant goes between your fingers, turn the entire thing upside down. So anything that falls out falls into your hand and lift the pot off. So you're not  pulling. No, no, no, no, don't pull, just lift the pot off, and you'll be able to see what's inside and grab the pot by the holes on the bottom and pull it up. And then you can just slide it back on, flip the whole thing over. Everything that fell out into your hand goes back into the top of the pot. And you get to see what you need to see. Slugs and snails like to hide in drain holes. And down the side of the media between the media and the pot because it's nice and moist and dark in there. And that's the environment they like the best. Ants, too. Yeah, the ants are back at my house.

Farmer Fred  18:15

And a nursery is a beautiful place for all these critters.

Debbie Flower  18:18

yes, birds too. But you know, you got the good with the bad. Or the bad with the good. I guess that's the way to say it.

Farmer Fred  18:26

Have you ever bought a sizable shrub or a tree at a nursery and taken it home? And there was a bird's nest in it? No? Me neither.

Debbie Flower  18:34

No.

Farmer Fred  18:35

I wonder if that's ever happened. I bet it has.

Debbie Flower  18:37

Yes. There was something in the news around Christmas time and somebody bought a Christmas tree and there was an owl and I don't know if there was a nest but there was an owl in it. Yeah, so I imagine it happens. Yeah. Okay. I know there are lots of hummingbirds at our local nurseries because they love the flowers that are there. And their nests are very small, maybe the size of a quarter. So they can easily be hidden.

Farmer Fred  19:05

All right, so you bought some plants and six packs and four inch pots, lots of nice summer color, you bring it home, you set it on a table outside, perhaps. And you say, “I’ll get to this.”  But a week goes by two weeks go by, it's still in the original container. There's trouble coming. If you do that. Maybe just maybe, if you think you're not going to get at planting those plants the day you buy them, move them up, guess move them up to larger containers. Except  I wouldn't do that to  the curcurbits, the cucumbers and squash and  pumpkins that you might buy because I don't think besides not wanting to be transplanted when they're too far developed, I would think any transplantatation would sort of slow them down.

Debbie Flower  19:56

Yeah, I don't know for sure. I don't know if the reason they see To grow after they've had, like four leaves in a pot, and then you put them in the ground is because they're sensitive to  transplant at that point. Or if they're too root bound at that point, I honestly don't know the answer to that. But I just don't risk it.

Farmer Fred  20:15

For tomatoes and peppers, and your standard other summertime vegetables and even flowers too, especially if they're in six packs. You want to give those bigger containers if you're not immediately going to stick those in the ground.

Debbie Flower  20:29

Right. It's amazing how much they grow. Yeah, once you move on to the next size container.

Farmer Fred  20:35

Yesh, it can actually reinvigorate a plant. But that doesn't mean okay, yeah, go ahead and buy that sick plant. That was the last one there at the nursery. No, don't do that. Yeah, or at least ask for a discount. Yes. If you think you can heal the dying, then try to get a discount out of it. So yeah, it really does make them better for a longer life. I'm thinking of tomatoes. A lot of people here in California will buy tomato plants during the first nice weekend in February. Even though,  soil temperature and nighttime temperatures aren't going to be conducive to plant growth for another two months. But they will have bought those plants. And they say, “I’ll take care of it until then.” And their idea of taking care of it is sticking it outside, maybe next to the house and in the original container, and hopefully watering it ,right?

Debbie Flower  21:27

Yeah.There are a lot of plant sales in spring by organizations. The local university here is having theirs at the arboretum this Sunday. And I've I'm debating whether I'm going to buy anything, I have a couple of spots, I would like to try some plants. Because really, fall is for planting, obviously not for tomatoes and peppers and things that need heat. But for landscape plants fall is for planting. So if I buy anything this Sunday, it would be, for me, landscape plants. That's what I'm looking for. And I think  I will just pop them up into bigger pots and keep them in a place that gets regular water, which is probably in my greenhouse, which will be open, it won't get too hot in there and I’ll keep them until fall. But at least I’ll pot them up till I decide what I'm going to do. Potting up is a wonderful thing to do.

Farmer Fred  22:23

All right. Did we help people out in picking out nursery plants?  We went down a lot of pathways. We've warned them about pests. We've warned them about diseases and other things.

Debbie Flower  22:36

Fruits And overgrown plants.  Yeah, I think so.

Farmer Fred  22:39

and just moving them up in the world of pots, when you bring it home. Unless you're gonna plant it that day. Most people are impulse buyers. Yeah, but it's nice if you think you're going to the nursery and you think Okay, I gotta get some color for the house. Fine. Prepare the pots at home or the ground ahead of time.

Debbie Flower  23:00

Dig the hole. I used to make that a rule. Dig the whole before I left.

Farmer Fred  23:04

Yeah, dig the hole. Have everything ready to go. That'll be certainly a good incentive to when you get home. Yes. Yeah. All right. Well, that's good parting words. All right. There you go. Go nursery shopping. They love to see you  it's Christmas time now there.

Debbie Flower  23:18

for the nursery, it's the season.

Farmer Fred

Yeah. All right. Thank you, Debbie.

Debbie Flower

You're welcome, Fred.

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DAVE WILSON NURSERY

Farmer Fred

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TIPS FOR STARTING A SCHOOL GARDEN

Farmer Fred

We're on the road today we're at the William Brooks Elementary School in Eldorado Hills, California in the Sierra foothills, east of Sacramento, and I am at the Brooks Garden of Learning, the William Brooks elementary school garden. It's an outdoor classroom. Students have the opportunity to enhance their understanding of what it is and what it takes to grow and maintain a vegetable garden. At Brooks, all classes can participate in monthly lessons. They get their hands dirty through interactive, hands-on gardening activity. Students plant their own vegetables, they watch them grow. They enjoy the harvest during lunchtime popups which feature food made from produce from the garden. And they even have a little farmers market where students can take produce home. It's called the Brooks Garden of Learning. And we are talking to the two people who started this, they are Master Gardeners here in El Dorado County, Christy Calderon and Shelley Joyer. And this is quite the project. Ladies, this is a beautiful garden by anybody’s stretch of the imagination. How much work do the kids actually do? It just looks like you throw money at a landscaper and up pops this garden!

Shelley Joyer  27:43

I wish we could say we did. But it's a lot of blood, sweat and tears. We could spend all day here, but the kids do most of the work. The idea is that we get our community involved here, as well. So the kids we have the plants for the kids where they come in, they're able to plant the produce for that season. Bring grandma and grandpa, it's a family event. And we have, if we have any big things that go on here, we involve the community and request help from other people. So it works out well.

Farmer Fred  28:16

Well, you have a thing here called the Brooks Garden Club. Which of you wants to talk about that?

Christy Calderon  28:22

So we are call it the “green team” and we meet twice a month on Wednesdays for an hour and those are the kids. We open that up to third through fifth grade. And those are the kids that really love gardening. So we've had the same about 22 kids for the last two years, and they come in and we work on a project like this last Wednesday we did our shrubbery tower over there. And they help us amend the soil and pull out the old crop and bring in the new crop. They get a little bit more hands-on in the garden versus their one hour they get a month.

Farmer Fred  28:49

Let's describe the plants in the garden. First of all, you have lots of raised beds, you have lots of structures for plants to grow on. There's shade, there's full sun, so you can grow a wide variety of plants here surely.

Shelley Joyer  29:01