325 Peach Leaf Curl Control Tips. All the Presidents' Gardens.

Show Transcript

325 TRANSCRIPT Peach Leaf Curl, White House Garden

Farmer Fred  0:00

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Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred

Appearing now (or soon) on a peach or nectarine tree near you: Peach Leaf Curl. What is this fungus that causes the leaves on these trees to redden, pucker, and curl? And how can you control it? (Please note, I did not say, “eradicate”). America’s favorite retired college horticultural professor, Debbie Flower, has some tips. Also, we go back about eight years for an interview with Marta McDowell, author of the book “All the Presidents’ Gardens”. It’s a look at the White House gardens, through the centuries. And which President was the most active gardener while living in the White House? If you know that answer off the top of your head, you need to get on “Jeopardy” as soon as possible!

It’s all in Episode 325 of today’s Garden Basics with Farmer Fred - Peach Leaf Curl Control Tips…and, a chat with the author of the book, “All the Presidents’ Gardens”.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory, it’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots. Let’s go!

PEACH LEAF CURL CONTROL TIPS

Farmer Fred

It's that time of year when you're staring up at your peach or nectarine tree and the leaves look kind of funny. You might see some reddish areas developing on the leaves. They might be getting thick and puckered. And then the leaves start to curl. I can guess you know what I'm talking about: It's peach leaf curl. It's a fungal disease. And is it going to ruin your tree? Is it going to ruin that crop? That's today's topic. Debbie Flower is here, America's favorite retired college horticultural professor. And from where I'm sitting, here in the abutilon jungle, I am staring at a doughnut peach tree that is rife with peach leaf curl. You can't see it behind the abutilon from where you're sitting.

Debbie Flower

No, I can’t. You're right.

Farmer Fred

But it is very saturated with it. And for that I blame the late winter rains and the early spring rains that have basically been spreading the spores around.

Debbie Flower  2:38

Yeah, it's been a wet spring here in California. I'll take it because we need the water. But yes, it's those are the conditions that allow this  fungal disease to stick around and infect your fruit, and your fruit tree.

Farmer Fred  2:54

It infects young green twigs and shoots. The shoots will become thickened, stunted, distorted, they often die. You might see some wrinkling or distortion on the fruit; sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. But anybody who's grown peach or nectarines over the years, is probably over the panic stage when it happens…if they still have the tree.

Debbie Flower  3:17

Yeah, it happens. And in if you do nothing, which is really not the only thing you can do right now. But if you do nothing, those leaves that are badly damaged will fall off and a new set will appear.

Farmer Fred  3:30

Do you need to fertilize the tree again for that?

Debbie Flower  3:32

It would be nice to give it some nutrition. Because it has just lost its whole set of leaves that it took some energy to put out there. I wouldn't do it until weather had sort of dried out though.

Farmer Fred  3:44

Depending upon what part of the country you live in, ou may not even see the symptoms until after the leaves emerge. And you're not going to see much on the buds, you'd have to have pretty good eyes to be able to spot that. But when the leaves emerge on your peach or nectarine trees, then you might start seeing it. And what a lot of people want to do is clip those leaves off. And that's probably one of the worst things you could do, because those leaves still have green portions that can photosynthesize.

Debbie Flower  4:13

Yes, they do. And the plant needs that,  it needs something to photosynthesize. However what falls to the ground can be raked up and gotten rid of. Not composted, but put in your green waste can. Perhaps a new layer of mulch can be put down once all of those infected leaves have fallen off, so that any fungal spores that are below the tree in that mulch will not splash back up into the tree with irrigation water or rain.

Farmer Fred  4:42

Yeah, that cleanup goes a long way to helping solve the problem as opposed to trying to clip the infected leaves off. But then again, you come back to a lot of people, who will say, “Okay, what can I spray to stop this from happening?” Well, once you've got it, you've got it. You're not going to cure it that year, you're not going to get rid of it that year. If you want to take action and do something preventative, you need to do that in the fall and winter.

Debbie Flower  5:08

Right, you need to do your preventative sprays. And there are fungicides labeled for use on peach leaf curl. You want to spray the plant twice, Thanksgiving and Valentine's Day, or just Valentine's Day for sure. Or approximately Valentine's Day. And you do what's called sprayed “drip to run off.” So the plant is dripping and you've gotten the trunk, you've gotten the underside of the branches. You've gotten the top sides of the branches, you've gotten all parts of the plant. The spores of this fungal disease are stuck on the plant, under the bark, in all kinds of different places and you want the fungicide to get to them.

Farmer Fred  5:46

In the good old days, you might spray with a really heavy duty copper application that might be like 49% copper, right? You can’t  get that anymore. Now, it's more like seven or 8%. And I guess you could use a sticker spreader with it too.  But you can't use it after your buds have developed what is called the popcorn stage of flowering.

Debbie Flower  6:08

Right. So  that's when the flowers are first coming out and they tend to be before the leaves form on the stone fruit. So the bud is starting to open and you see bits of of white or light color, like a kernel of popcorn.

Farmer Fred  6:22

And it's so important to clean up, like you mentioned. But unless you have a really hot compost pile, I wouldn't save it.

Debbie Flower  6:29

I wouldn't take that chance.There are peach trees, cultivars that are resistant to peach leaf curl. Having resistance does not mean they will never get it, they're less likely to get it, but it doesn't mean they won't. And so spraying them is a possibility too. Or you can wait until the first year you get it then you know it's a problem. Then start spraying the Thanksgiving after that.

Farmer Fred  6:55

Way back when, the University of California had several sprays that they would recommend for this. Currently, it's a copper spray with a 1% horticultural spray oil added to the mix that you would be spraying. There's even debate about when to apply the copper spray. Generally speaking, if you only do one spray a year, you want to do that around Valentine's Day, right before that bud fully opens, but around Thanksgiving and Christmas are also pretty good times. The trick, though, is you need six dry days afterwards.

Debbie Flower  7:30

And that's a lot of time.

Farmer Fred  7:32

Yeah, especially in that time of the year to have dry weather like that. They used to recommend the heavier copper sprays, they used to recommend lime sulfur, they used to recommend Bordeaux mixtures, but lime sulfur and Bordeaux mixtures are no longer available (or hard to find) and potentially caustic too. Especially the Bordeaux mixture.

Debbie Flower  7:50

And discoloring. It can discolor certain surfaces.

Farmer Fred  7:53

There are a lot of warnings with that. You might be thinking okay, so I can't get that 50% copper anymore, and the weaker ones don't work as well. You don't want to use that Bordeaux mixture, that hydrated lime, because like you say, it can do a lot of discoloration. And they're not as effective as the mixture made from individual components according to UCIPM, but there is a synthetic fungicide, chlorothalonil. It's the only non-copper fungicide available for managing peach leaf curl in the backyard orchard. And even though one fall application may help prevent a spring outbreak of peach leaf curl, a second application around Valentine's Day,  before the buds begin to swell, can be beneficial as well. However, you won't ever hear me tell you to go the to the store and buy chlorothalonil. It is toxic to aquatic invertebrates and wildlife. You don't want to apply directly to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas. Drift and run off from treated areas may be hazardous to aquatic organisms in neighboring areas, like where those friendly little frogs that croak during late winter. And also, if you read and follow all label directions - which you should - regarding chlorothalonil, it says things like “may be fatal if inhaled. harmful if swallowed or absorbed through skin causes moderate eye irritation. Avoid contact with eyes skin or clothing”. Wait a minute, if you can't touch your skin and you can't touch clothing, what can I touch? I don't know.

Debbie Flower  9:27

A Tyvek suit. You do see people applying pesticides wearing a Tyvek suit. And there's a reason for that.

Farmer Fred

Yeah. Did you know you're in Barking Dogs Studio?

Debbie Flower

I just figured that out.

Farmer Fred  9:41

Okay.  You don't want to breathe the spray mist either. And also, here in the state of California, you will see this: a warning on the side that says, “this product contains chlorothalonil, which is a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer.” So I don't like that idea of using something that dangerous.

Debbie Flower  10:00

So, what are you going to do with your peach tree?

Farmer Fred  10:02

I'm going to clean up the fallen leaves.

Debbie Flower

Sanitation.

Farmer Fred  10:07

I'll give it another dose of fertilizer. I am not going to clip off the leaves. And I will have a reduced amount of fruit this year. Because the tree is going to spend a lot of energy pumping out a new set of leaves. And that's going to adversely affect the fruit size and fruit production. But there already small fruits on there.  And chances are, some of it just may fall off, right? I wouldn't be a bit surprised. But it sure is a darn tasty peach. And it's certainly more darn tasty than the allegedly peach leaf curl resistant varieties, like Frost, Indian Free, Q18, and Muir. Although I've heard people say nice things about Q18.

Debbie Flower  10:48

I had Frost and I cut it down.

Farmer Fred  10:51

They used to have one that they don't even sell anymore, i think, called California Curl Free. We got it in the second year, The peach leaf curl.

Debbie Flower  10:59

Oh my, free for a year. Yeah, they didn't tell you the whole name.

Farmer Fred  11:03

Right. And of course, nectarines too. I don't think there is a resistant variety currently on the market. So anyway, deal with it. But benign neglect isn't a bad way to go.

Debbie Flower  11:32

Just keep the tree healthy. So that when it goes through these cycles, it has enough resources stored in its trunk and roots, etc. to recover from it. And don't expect a huge harvest the year if you're having a peach leaf curl attack.

Farmer Fred  11:47

And it really spreads in those years where you do get a lot of rain at the wrong time of the year. And so when you get all that rain, there isn't much you can do. They even did experiments out at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center where they covered the peach tree with frost cloth after they sprayed, and it helped a little bit, but it was too much effort.

Debbie Flower  12:08

There was a big display this year of the peach leaf curl infested tree.

Farmer Fred  12:13

Yes, well over the years, they've been dealing with it because everybody gets peach leaf curl. So get used to dealing with it. Again, don't clip off the leaves that are on there, because the parts that are healthy are photosynthesizing and helping the tree recover. However, having said that, I think it's a good idea that before you spray with a copper spray, if you use a copper spray in late fall early winter, is to prune the tree first.

Debbie Flower  12:41

Yes, I was gonna say something about that. Prune your fruit trees to keep them more open. So you get better airflow. The fungus and bacteria need six to eight hours of free water, which means a droplet of water sitting on the plant, in order for them to germinate and infect the plant. If the plant is very twiggy, the wind will be less effective at drying out any water spots that are on the plant. If you can get it open and get more airflow through it and think about what's around it. What is it up against? Is it sited correctly to get good airflow through the plant? Or is it up against the house or up against a very tall fence or near another plant that is stopping the wind? Obviously, that would be something to think about before you plant the tree. But if you can correct it once the plant is in the ground, that may help keep down the amount of peach leaf curl that you get. However, once you got it, you got it.

Farmer Fred  13:36

Yeah.  I guess you could maybe put up a temporary framework around the tree. And then when rain is predicted, especially as the buds open, you can protect it.

Debbie Flower  13:53

Well, that's a lot of work.

Farmer Fred  13:54

That's a lot of work. Exactly. And then take it off so It can get some sunshine. Yeah.

Debbie Flower  14:00

You better have it pruned to be a very small tree.

Farmer Fred  14:03

That's why we always talk about backyard orchard culture on the show, the practice of keeping your fruit trees small. It may be about seven feet tall to keep everything within reach. And that includes making spraying a heck of a lot easier, if you do spray.  Like I say, I am reluctant to heave ho the tree just because, it does have tasty peaches on it!

Debbie Flower  14:21

Right, At least for us, this is one of our wetter years. We've had two in a row now, which is pretty amazing. But we have springs where we get very, very little rain and peach leaf curl is not a problem. If there's not rain or overhead irrigation. And don't overhead irrigate!

Farmer Fred  14:38

The University of California is very reassuring. They say, “Although symptoms of leaf curl are seen primarily in spring as new leaves develop, there's little you can do to control the disease at this time.” And they also say don't remove those diseased leaves or prune the infected shoots because that has not been shown to improve control. Those leaves are going to fall out off and be replaced by new healthy leaves. Unless it's raining. And, consider thinning fruit later in the season. Also, prune in fall, prior to applying any fungicides. That can reduce spore numbers overwintering on the tree, and reduce the amount of fungicide needed. And if leaf curl symptoms occur on your trees in spring, be sure to treat the following fall and winter to prevent more serious losses the following year.

Debbie Flower  15:26

And when you do that pruning, don't put your branches in your compost pile or chip them and leave them as mulch in your yard, because then you're retaining the spores. However, there is no research that has shown that fungal diseases are retained in chipped wood. But I would want to get it off my property.

Farmer Fred  15:45

We have debated out at the Fair OaksHorticulture Center about if you have mulch beneath the peach or nectarine tree that gets peach leaf curl, what do you do with all that mulch? And there are those who say, “just move around to a plant  that isn't susceptible to peach leaf curl.”

Debbie Flower  16:02

Well, the research done at Washington State says that these fungal and bacterial pathogens don't live on mulch, because the mulch is not the same as living on the plant. Yeah,  that's about as good as it gets in terms of an explanation. I don't know if I'd move the mulch. I think I would just put another layer on top of it.

Farmer Fred

Yeah, that would work.

Debbie Flower

All I'm trying to do is prevent those spores if they are there and viable -  meaning have life - from splashing back up in the tree. So if I put a layer of mulch on top, it doesn't have to be thick, if I put a layer of something else over it where the water first hits, that's when rainwater is most powerful, then I'm preventing that from happening.

Farmer Fred  16:45

Mulch, mulch mulch. Where have I heard that? It works, it does work. And plus you're feeding the soil, as well, as it breaks down. So it does world of good for a lot of reasons, as you know, if you listen to this program. Peach leaf curl. We can't solve it for you, but we can maybe make it more tolerable.

Debbie Flower  17:02

Don't give up.

Farmer Fred  17:04

Yep. Enjoy those peaches. They might be fewer and smaller, but they'll still be tasty.

Debbie Flower

Yes, they will.

Farmer Fred

Thank you, Debbie.

Debbie Flower  17:09

You're welcome, Fred.

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ALL THE PRESIDENTS’ GARDENS

Farmer Fred

I've been going through my garden files of old interviews lately, and I came across one, that even though it is about eight years old, it really strikes home today. It was an interview with the author of the book, “All the President's Gardens”, by Marta McDowell. Let's give it a listen.

Farmer Fred  19:29

It had me by its very first sentence and the first sentence is this: “All politics is local as the saying goes and so by necessity is gardening.” Hmm. All gardening is local.

Farmer Fred  19:41

Where have I heard that before? Well, it's in the new book “All the President's Gardens: Madison's cabbages to Kennedy's roses, how the White House grounds have grown with America.” We're talking with the author of the book. Marta McDowell, and Marta, it’s a fabulous book. It's so well illustrated. And plenty of human interest stories as well. And since your first sentence says all gardening is local, I have to ask, why the heck did they ever choose to situate Washington DC on a swamp?

Marta McDowell  20:13

Oh, well, you know, I guess it was available. probably wasn't the best farmland. And it was really convenient. You know, it had good access from water with the Potomac, and it was really close to George Washington.

Farmer Fred  20:32

Yeah, that's the thing. It's like 15 miles from his residence, and I could see why he was for it. But what I found interesting was the story you have in the book of Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Alexander Hamilton, basically spending a drunken night together and deciding that Washington DC would be located where it is.

Marta McDowell  20:52

Hamilton really wanted a central bank. And so they made a deal. They made a deal. And Hamilton got his bank, he you know, he took on all the states. And the Virginians got the Potomac location, for the federal city. As the playwright, Lin Manuel Miranda, of “Hamilton” fame wrote, “no one was in the room when it happened”. No one else was there. So we don't really know. But that's the way it turned out.

Farmer Fred  21:26

What is interesting about the people who have lived in the White House, they're basically renters, and yet they have free reign as far as what they can do with the property. They can add and subtract as they please. Now, Washington, it was his baby. It was his design. He was a farmer. And how did he lay out the grounds?

Marta McDowell  21:45

He had an architect, Pierre L’Enfant , but Washington decided that he wanted the house sited up on the hill, where it would have a beautiful view of the river. And certainly it would be able to be seen there. It's a lot like Mount Vernon in that in that regard. And so he's gonna put it up there, and it is up a little rise. So it looks down onto these really big grounds. And of course, at the time, it was fairly wooded. And then there was also pasture land there as well.

Farmer Fred  22:21

Washington also had an interest in citrus trees, didn't he?

Marta McDowell  22:25

Yes, Washington actually had an interest in all sorts of trees. And he ordered lots of them. And we think he was sort of trying them out for planting around the president's house and around Washington, but a plan for lots of native trees, but not just from around Virginia. He went all the way up, up and down the eastern seaboard for those trees.

Farmer Fred  22:48

And like a lot of us, he was very fond of going to nurseries, wasn't he?

Marta McDowell  22:54

Yes. You know, we think of him always out there, being a soldier or then being a politician. But he took time to go to nurseries, both in Philadelphia and on Long Island. He has lots of correspondence with lots of people, he got seeds, plants, he just loved to plant anything.

Farmer Fred  23:12

He had some sense about him, though, even though he was bringing in some plants that he knew were not native to the Washington DC area. He  made accommodations for them. Sidn't he build a big glass house for the citrus trees?

Marta McDowell  23:25

Oh, yes, yes, absolutely. He had the equivalent of an orangerie,  a brick and glass house, where he could have things that were tender. So he definitely knew a lot about growing things and wasn't  shy about taking a chance on something he wasn't sure about.

Farmer Fred  23:48

And he probably got good advice, too.

Marta McDowell

Oh, no doubt.

Farmer Fred  23:52

But but when you're President of the United States, you can pretty well decide for yourself what you want to go on the grounds. You have the story in there of Teddy Roosevelt and Richard Nixon, both deciding to plant coast redwoods from California, at the White House. And both times they died.

Marta McDowell  24:10

So you can imagine how Teddy Roosevelt was so involved in the national parks and in the preservation of land, and he loved to the west. so, he tried to grow a giant redwood and then of course, Richard Nixon being from California, he wanted one as well, but you know, there are just some things that you can't legislate, or be the executive of, and where trees want to grow is one of them.

Farmer Fred  24:39

Among the presidents, who were the most active gardeners?

Marta McDowell  24:44

I really expected Thomas Jefferson to be one of the ones out there,  really digging in the gardens at the president's house, and it turned out that  wasn't true. He was you know, it was a little too soon it was still really under construction. James Madison certainly planted a lot. But the one President that I was really surprised about is John Quincy Adams. Because he got out there and dug in. He kind of learned to garden while he was president, the head gardener at the time, John Ousley, really taught him how to garden. Quincy Adams mentions in his diaries that he called John  his “nomenclature”, or  the one person who taught him all of the botanical names for plants. He picked up acorns or walnuts or hickory nuts, and then brought them outside to the garden at the White House and planted them. He planted apple seeds, and he actually kept propagation records. So going through his diaries, I found these wonderful entries, some of which had little drawings of the seedlings and the dates when he planted them, and when they came up.  it was really wonderful.

Farmer Fred  26:03

I was amazed at the notes that a lot of the presidents took. You have illustrations, including one of Thomas Jefferson’s, a list  of when vegetables were in season and available at the local market.

Marta McDowell  26:16

And I was astounded, not just at the completeness and neatness of this table that he did by hand, but also the number of vegetables that were available to him in the Washington markets through the year. Much more than I would have expected at the time. This is the first decade of the 1800s. So he really had a lot of people growing a variety of vegetables.

Farmer Fred  26:44

Another president who surprised me, and maybe he gets short shrift in elementary school history classes, but I think he did a lot to promote the gardens at the White House. And that was Rutherford B. Hayes.

Marta McDowell  26:55

Yes. So now I remember Rutherford B rhymes with tree, because he loved tree planting, both at his home in Ohio, and then when he came to Washington. He really got that process of commemorative tree planting going. The other thing about the Hayes. So Rutherford Hayes and his wife Lucy Webb Hayes were temperance supporters. And they cut out all alcohol at the White House, which as you might imagine, was not really popular with the Washington crowd. There was one gentleman, I think he was the Secretary of State. And he said something about one of their parties: “It was a brilliant affair. The water flowed like champagne.” So instead, the Hayes would take the guests through the glass houses, there were all of these conservatories attached to the west side of the White House at the time. And they even extended them, you know, during their administration.

Farmer Fred  28:02

And then Teddy Roosevelt came around and tore them down.

Marta McDowell  28:06

Yes. Well, you know, Teddy Roosevelt had a big family, lots of children, who was I think, the youngest president ever inaugurated, because he had a big family. And, you know, the West Wing didn't exist. So the President was expected to live and work in the accommodations of the house. And TR decided  he needed more space. So he called in an architect. And, you know, they decided the conservatory had to go. And so all of the plants were moved out to other propagating greenhouses that were down near the Washington Monument. And also with the glass houses at the White House.

Farmer Fred  28:46

What plants have survived all the presidents since every President has put their mark on the grounds as far as plantings or designs or, or whatever? Are there plants that have been grown over the whole timespan of the White House?

Marta McDowell  29:02

Not too many. So the rose has been growing the whole time. And so it's sort of positive proof that Americans love roses. Ronald Reagan made it official that the rose is the official flower of United States. American holly, Ilex opaca,  the horse chestnut, surprisingly, because sometimes they struggle. And then a half dozen different native trees, things like maples and tulip poplars, beeches, Redbuds and maybe the American ash.

Farmer Fred  29:42

And certainly no coast redwoods,

Marta McDowell  29:45

No coast redwood. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was born in California, too.

Farmer Fred  29:50

It's a wonderful book. I recommend it highly. It's by Marta McDowell, the name of the book is “All the President's Gardens: Madison's cabbages to Kennedy's roses.” It is how the White House grounds have grown with America. You could probably just ask for it as “All the President's Gardens” and you would find that book. Marta McDowell. Thanks for spending a few minutes with us.

Marta McDowell  30:09

Thank you, Fred. It was a pleasure.

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Farmer Fred  30:16

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Farmer Fred

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