235 Horse Manure as Fertilizer? Wildfire Landscaping Tips

Show Transcript

GB 235 Horse Manure. Wildfires. TRANSCRIPT

Farmer Fred  0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred  0:32

If you have horses, or access to horse manure, you might want to use that manure to fertilize your plants. What are the precautions you need to take before you break out the big shovel? America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower has those warnings.

Wildfires are a fact of life throughout many rural and not so rural areas of states throughout the West, Northwest, SouthWest and the South. One in 6 Americans lives in an area that could face a wildfire. How can you protect your property to slow down the chance of damage from flying, burning embers? We talk with a University of California wildfire specialist on easy steps you can take to protect your home and modify your landscape to ease the wildfire threat.

We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Potsand Dave Wilson Nursery. Let’s go!

Horse Manure: Advice and Warnings About Using it in the Garden

Farmer Fred  1:34

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. There's a lot of ways to get in touch with us. You can leave an audio question without making a phone call via SpeakPipe. Just go to speak pipe.com/garden basics, and  use your smartphone or your computer, and we'll hear your question. That’s the miracle of the 21st century. You can use a phone and call us 916-292-8964, 916-292-8964. There's a contact box where you can leave a question at GardenBasics.net .

E-mail? Sure, send it to Fred at farmerfred.com. You can also leave a message at the Facebook site “Get Growing with Farmer Fred; or at Twitter, which is @farmerfred; or Instagram, which is Farmer Fred Hoffman.  There’s a lot of ways to get questions in. Debbie Flower is here. I don't have a problem with the questions because she does all the work. Debbie Flower is America's Favorite Retired College Horticultural Professor. And we hear from Ken down in Galt, which is in southern Sacramento County. and he says, “My granddaughters have acquired two horses. I have a large garden and would love to use the manure but I don't know how to compost it. Can you give me some tips or suggest a book or a website for me about horse manure?”

And you're absolutely right. horses produce a heck of a lot of manure. I was amazed, looking at the figures about how much manure that horses can produce. And it’ll become a small mountain eventually, if you don't do something about it. So I think composting would be a good idea,

Debbie Flower  3:04

Debbie. Yeah, I read 50 pounds a day.

Farmer Fred  3:08

yeah.

Debbie Flower  3:09

So  that's quite a bit of manure. composting is going to involve a small tractor of some sort, a front end loader, or something like that. Because composting is a process where you're gonna pile it up outdoors, or preferably under a roof.

Farmer Fred  3:23

Can you do it in the spare bedroom in your house, so the kids don't move back in?

Debbie Flower  3:27

No. Obviously manure has fragrances that are not real desirable. To most people, you don't want the manure exposed to a lot of rain, because it's going to wash away all the good stuff, particularly the nitrogen. And it can end up then flooding places with manure water that don't want to be flooded. So you're gonna have to store that manure somewhere and pile it up and create the desirable nitrogen to carbon ratio, which tends to need a lot more carbon than nitrogen. So including the barn sweepings is a very positive thing in this compost pile, and then turning it regularly. You want the compost pile to get up to 140 degrees. You need a long shanked thermometer, they are sold in garden supply places. They come with a 24 inch or 36 inch shank, and they will have a round dial on the end. and when you plunge it in the center, it should be 140 degrees. And you leave it for a couple of days till it starts to decline in temperature. That means that the microorganisms working it have done their business. And then you turn it. You turn it so that the outside of the pile goes into the center, and the center of the pile goes to the outside. Obviously, that's a little difficult to tell, but you turn it and and then leave it. Again, check the temperature. Let it get back to 140. Leave it in a couple of days. when it starts to drop, you go through the process again and that will take potentially dangerous things out of the manure, like weed seeds.

Farmer Fred  4:59

A lot of ways you can design that compost pile, too. You mentioned the roof. If need be, you could cover it with a tarp. But as long as you turn it, it'll be okay and get oxygen through there. And you may only need to tarp it in when rain is predicted, right? So you have that advantage going for you. One of my favorites is the three bin method. We'll have instructions for that in the show notes today. University of California came up with that, and it's basically finished compost in as little as two weeks. Although Debbie likes to brag that they did it in less time than that.

Debbie Flower  5:32

We did. Because we turned it daily. It wasn't a manure pile. It was garden clippings.  And it was about 10 days or a week.

Farmer Fred  5:42

So it went from looking like celery to looking like fine compost.

Debbie Flower  5:46

You could not identify plants in it. That's all you want. There was a composting experiment,  in Tucson, Arizona, which is an incredibly dry place most of the year. And they tried different methods. This was for homeowners, so they were small, different containers and different inputs, you do need some moisture in the compost pile, about the consistency of a wrung out sponge. Not a lot. And it needs oxygen. And it obviously needs the nitrogen and carbon components, which you will get with the barn sweepings in the manure, but they found that the number one thing that was the limiting factor in the speed of the breakdown of the compost was oxygen. So because there's lots of microorganisms in there working their little butts off, and they need to breathe, and that's when the temperature starts to decline in that compost pile. They start to die, and they can't work anymore. First, they can't work any more, then they start to die, because they're suffocating. And so that's why you turn the pile. So the more you turn the pile, the faster you'll get compost.

Farmer Fred  6:48

What about putting a perforated pipe through the middle of the pile? Does that help?

Debbie Flower  6:53

There is a gentleman who came up with that technique. And we had one at school and I don't know.

Farmer Fred  7:01

Okay, that sounds like it needed more airflow through there.

Debbie Flower  7:03

I don't think it's gonna help a lot because the same process will occur, just in different parts of the pile, right? Can't have enough pipe in it.

Farmer Fred  7:17

What about the ingredients that go into a horse manure compost bin? Do you need other ingredients in order to make it work effectively?

Debbie Flower  7:24

I don't know the answer to that.

Farmer Fred  7:26

I don't know the answer to that either.

Debbie Flower  7:28

We know people, both of us, people who are professional gardeners who have taken horse manure from a horse that has a known diet and put it directly on their garden, fresh. We don't know how long it sat around before it was brought to their garden. But it was not put through the composting process. That is something to be very wary of. You have to know what those horses have eaten. Because if they eat a seed, it will not break down unless you put it through the composting process. And so you'll end up introducing weeds into your garden, sometimes very noxious weeds, like Nutsedge.

Farmer Fred  8:04

Or nutgrass.

Debbie Flower  8:06

They are close relatives. The other thing to know is that if you've got a lot of manure, remember it’s 50 pounds a day per horse, 100 pounds a day for two horses. You're gonna have a lot of manure, and it attracts lots of things, insects in particular, and you may want to contact an insectary, and there are live organisms that you can get. They can mail  them to you and you can put them in your pile that will naturally kill those insects. It can kill flies in particular, which is what I'm thinking of.

Farmer Fred  8:35

And one of those critters you can get is soldier fly larva, they really do a great job in manure reduction. And that can really help you out in your battle to to control the pest flies that may be around.

Debbie Flower  8:49

The thing I'm thinking of is a micro organism of bacteria or fungus of some sort. It's been many years since I've  recommended that to someone, and they did it and it worked great. And I sent them to the insectary called Rincon Vetova. They have a wonderful website (RinconVitova.com) , and very knowledgeable people. And they put this friend on a regular mailing based on the number of animals she had, sending her these live organisms and she said it worked like a charm. When you use horse manure in the garden, know what those horses have eaten. Know if they've been in a field that has weeds. If the weeds are in the seed stage of life, if they consume seeds, they're more very likely to come through them in the manure completely alive and in a nice little packet of moisture and nitrogen. And unless they are composted, those seeds will not break down. Composting at 140 degrees, hot composting we call it , will kill many seeds of weeds, at least most of them, and it will leave you with a much more desirable final product for your garden.

Farmer Fred  10:05

Horse manure can be used successfully in the garden to help out your plants, but it's gonna take a little bit of work. Go for it Ken. Debbie Flower, thanks for your help on this.

Debbie Flower  10:14

You're always welcome Fred

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Farmer Fred  12:09

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Landscaping Tips to Slow a Wildfire on Your Property

Farmer Fred  13:17

It used to be, here in California, we had a fire season. Well, not anymore. It seems like every month of the year, there's a major wildfire, somewhere in the state. But I was surprised to learn that it isn't just California. What with climate change and drought and other factors, something like one in six Americans live in areas with significant wildfire risk. Something like 16% of the country's population today lives in hazardous areas. And that share will increase as people move further and further out from cities. It could be up to 21% over the next 30 years. Of course if you live in the foothills, if you live in a wildland area, if you live anywhere near flammable material… you've probably already started taking precautions. but any gardener, anywhere, even if you live in a suburb in the middle of a city, you could be exposed to a wildfire. Just talk to the residents of Coffee Park, a suburb of Santa Rosa, California. In fact, it's right within the city limits of Santa Rosa. Back in October 2017, it was the Tubbs fire that started 17 miles away, up in Calistoga on a Sunday night. The fire swept from Calistoga to the southwest at a pace of about three miles an hour, burning up about an acre a minute, while spewing burning embers a half mile or more ahead. And by the middle of the night, the fire was forcing entire neighborhoods in Santa Rosa to flee. Wind speeds were tracked at somewhere above 60 miles an hour. Embers were flying across highway 101, a major four lanefreeway, north of San Francisco,  in Santa Rosa. So flying embers is a big thing to consider. And then you got to consider your house, and the dead plant material that may be around it. It's not just the flames coming up to your house. It's burning embers, flying a half mile or a mile , because storms these days, these fire storms, are developing their own wind patterns. And it's not unusual to have gale force winds involved in wildfire. So wherever you may live, if you can see mountains around you, if you're close to prairie land, if you're close to anything that can burn, you got to consider the thought of, how safe is my yard? What do I need to do to my yard? How can you protect your home from wildfire?

We bring in an expert. We are talking with Luca Carmignani. He's an assistant fire advisor of the Wildland-Urban interface of the University of California’s Ag and Natural Resources. And that title, fire advisor, is a fairly new one for Cooperative Extension Farm advisors here in California. Unfortunately, they are needed now to aid landowners and homeowners, to assist them in making their home more fire resistant. So let's bring in Luca Carmignani  right now and talk to him about how to protect your home from wildfire. And in Southern California, where you're based, Luca, the fire season now is no longer just the summer into the fall. it's year round. I think there's been a fire down in Southern California, every month for the last year.

Luca Carmignani  16:51

Yeah. And hi, Fred. And thanks for having me. And you got a great point. Actually, you got two great points. The first one is you mentioned embers. We need to think about embers, and how houses can burn. And the second one, the fire season, we were used to having fire seasons from summer to late fall. And now it is not really a matter of the month. Here in Orange County, we had a big fire in May that destroyed more than 20 homes in Laguna Niguel. And that was the middle of May, with a relatively high level of humidity. So that tells us that we need to think about fire all year round. And not just for a few months a year.

Farmer Fred  17:40

And there have been fires in California in the dead of winter, in December in January as well. If you don't have the rain, if you don't have the moisture, it can burn.

Luca Carmignani  17:50

Yep. And we've even seen fires in Colorado last winter. That definitely was very unusual.

Farmer Fred  17:58

You look at a map of where wildfire areas are across the United States and it is basically every state in the western United States. It goes into the southwest, it goes into the south. All of those areas are wildfire prone. So all these tips that we're going to be talking about today apply to anyone who's near a wildfire area across the United States. I think the only people who might be exempt  are listeners in the upper Midwest and maybe the New England states. But other than that, wildfires are very widespread.

Now you mentioned a very interesting thing about  homes that have been burned by flying embers. And it was a few years ago, back in 2011, that the IBHS which is a research group, the Insurance Institute for Business and Home Safety. They burned a house deliberately, they built a house inside this huge warehouse, they put up these huge fans, and then they blew flaming embers through the fans and aimed it at the house. And they had built this house specifically to show the weak points and the strong points, as well as the difference in the fire resistance of building materials. I will have a link to that video where you can see how quickly a home can explode into flames after getting hit by flying embers

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvbNOPSYyss) . And I noticed in that video, the first thing they did to make it look like a typical suburban home is they put in plants and mulch right next to the house. And if there's one thing that we would like to stress, I think in this little chat of ours is the fact that you need to take out all vegetation, either alive or dead, within five feet of your home.

Luca Carmignani  19:50

Yep,  that's correct. And because unfortunately, embers can attack a home in many different ways. They can dive fast and come into the home through, for example, a vent, or a broken or open window. Or they can ignite all the materials around the house. And if you have plants right next to the side of the house that are burning, then you expose the eaves and the entire roof  to the fire. So definitely there can be a lot of escalating effects. And it's important to understand that you don't want to have flammable materials close to your house. And unfortunately, plants can burn, even so-called fire resistant plants. In situations of typical fires scenarios, they can burn. And they can generate even more embers. They could penetrate the house or penetrate a low crevice of your deck and then ignite it. So yes, you're right, it's very important to clean the first zone within five feet from your house. That's very important.

Farmer Fred  20:59

Explain the dangers of a fire ladder. People who live in the woods or live in the foothills are aware of low growing shrubs beneath taller trees. And those shrubs can act as ladders, sending fire to the upper canopy of the trees. But even next to your house, you could have fire ladders.

Luca Carmignani  21:20

Yes, that's correct. For example, if you have a little bush that is not very tall, but let's say has a lot of dead branches that could burn in case of a fire. If that bush was directly exposed under eaves of the house or a window  it could be  close to a vent. So in those situations, that little bush, even if it's like relatively small, it can threaten the house itself. And it could act as ladder fuel, basically.

Farmer Fred  21:53

And don't forget all the dead material that could burn that's inside your roof gutters.

Luca Carmignani  22:00

Correct. Because it's very important to understand that  the roof tends to burn close to the edges. So what do you have on the edges on the roof? You have gutters that might contain debris or leaves. They catch all of it,  and if you don't clean it, then this debris can catch on fire. And once you have the fire along the gutter, that's perfect to ignite the entire roof. And that's very destructive, unfortunately. So it's very important to keep gutters clean and maintain the roof. Keep it free of leaves, especially if you have trees that are close to your roof. It's very important to keep it clean.

Farmer Fred  22:44

And probably to trim back those trees away from the roof, too.

Luca Carmignani  22:48

Yes. There are some studies that show how trees can actually catch the embers. And they don't necessarily cause a fire for the house. But it's also important to understand that if you have a big tree close to your house, one of the branches may break in the wind and then the branch could fall on the roof or break a window, or something like that. And that will open a direct path for the fire or embers to get in. So it's very important to trim your vegetation. And nobody is asking you to cut down your trees. But it's good to keep a safe space between the vegetation and the house.

Farmer Fred  23:30

I think for landscaping purposes, if you're going to be planting trees around your house, to preserve the integrity of the foundation of the house from tree roots, you want to plant that tree probably 15 to 20 feet away from the house. Now it depends on what type of tree it is and how big that canopy is going to spread. If it is a widespread canopy, you ought to plant it a little further away than that. Another thing that was interesting in that video of the burning house presented by the Insurance Institute for business and home safety, was how quickly the gutters ignited. Now yes, the gutters were filled with debris that caught fire, but the gutter themselves caught fire because they were made of vinyl. And they had two kinds of gutters on this test house . A vinyl gutter on one side and then an aluminum gutter along the other side. And the aluminum gutter was fine. The vinyl gutter went up immediately in flames. Now even though a vinyl gutter could save you hundreds of dollars whe it comes to gutter installation. I  think you ought to spend the money on aluminum gutters.

Luca Carmignani  24:37

Yeah,  that is true. But also with aluminum, you're not going to be saved if you have a lot of leaves in it because the vinyl gutter will catch on fire and will fall on the ground, then ignite other parts of the house. But if you have an aluminum gutter, it will keep burning if you have leaves inside of it, and so you will directly expose the the edge of the roof to a fire. So that's very dangerous. So you're not safe if you have a metal gutter, if it's not clean. So it's extremely important to clean the gutters regularly.

Farmer Fred  25:13

I was amazed to learn how easily a wildfire couldn't penetrate through a window, especially a single pane window, which is why double pane windows make a heck of a lot more sense.

Luca Carmignani  25:25

Yes, and because unfortunately, single pane windows are not very resistant to the heat that is coming from the fire. So for example, if you have something burning relatively close to the house, the radiant heat is so cold, the one that like reaches you far away from the fire, it can still be hot enough to break the single pane window. And if one of the windows break, you could give the fire a big opening, and burn the house from the inside out. So it's very important to have double pane windows. And it's recommended to have the outside pane to be tempered glass. It is at least four times more resistant than regular glass. Very important to consider that if you have to replace windows.

Farmer Fred  26:21

Yeah. And speaking of costs, even though vinyl siding might be cheaper, you may want to go to something a little bit more fire resistant.

Luca Carmignani  26:30

Yeah, yeah. Especially if your house is like close to your neighbor's house, or to a shed. You know, if you have like another structure that is relatively close, let's say in within 30 feet, it's probably better if you have a fire resistant siding, because that will burn if it's vinyl siding,

Farmer Fred  26:53

Fire resistant siding, I guess, would have a component of cement in it.

Luca Carmignani  26:58

Yeah, there are a lot of different versions, usually stucco or other fire resistant materials can be used. But it  comes down to the fact that not to have any crevises. Because if you have like a little crevice or a gap, or a part that is like broken in the siding, it doesn't matter if it's fire resistant material. The fire will find a way to burn it. So if when you think about the siding and the house itself, you need to consider it in a holistic way, and find the weakest point that the fire might burn.

Farmer Fred  27:36

What are some of the more common mistakes that you see on family homes in this regard?

Luca Carmignani  27:41

Unfortunately, I see a lot of issues that could be relatively easily prevented. Most people think that like the roof is the most important aspect of the house. And rightly so, because it's very exposed to embers and it has a large surface. But if you have like old vents that have like a mesh screen, that  very large embers could totally penetrate through it and basically ignite the attic, or the garage. Or, as I mentioned before, the gutters are very important too. So these are two things that can be easily addressed by a homeowner, insurance for the gutters. As we said before, you just need to regularly clean them. And for the vents, you can  try to retrofit them. At  hardware stores, there are metal covers that you can put on top of your vents to make them fire resistant. Or the simplest thing that you can do is to prepare covers made of plywood or meta,l for example, that you can put on the vent before you have to leave your house. Of course, only it's safe to do so. But definitely closing those gaps is extremely important to prevent the house from burning down.

Farmer Fred  29:02

Yeah, you'd almost need to install shutters around your vents in order to be able to close them quickly while you're evacuating.

Luca Carmignani  29:10

Yep, yep, and or prepare metal covers or something that you can just use to  block the flow through the vents physically.

Farmer Fred  29:18

Yeah, that video we’re talking about demonstrated what a blowing embers can do. They showed what happens when embers blow through the typical gable that has 1/8 inch screen mesh, protecting it basically to keep the bugs out. Sparks came right in. They were suggesting you want to use a 1/16 inch mesh, but that may require more maintenance.

Luca Carmignani  29:42

Yeah, correct because that could get clogged with paint for example, or with some other material. You know if you have like a very small mesh, like 1/16 of an inch, you need to be careful and keep an eye on on it. And yeah, if you have like larger mesh, for example, a quarter of an inch, then the embers can easily go through and ignite, whatever is on the other side. And that's also important. For example, if you have a garage where you usually store all of the flammable material like paint, we have all sorts of things. So if embers get the garage, then it's a big issue.

Farmer Fred  30:27

Yeah. Speaking of flammable materials on property, I'm thinking of when I lived in the country, all the people with propane tanks, even though they were the required distance from the house, they were usually under trees, or in some sort of flammable area. And if those tanks exploded, it doesn't matter that it's 30 feet away.

Luca Carmignani  30:49

Yes, that's, that's correct.

Farmer Fred  30:52

Another thing that people don't realize, too, when they're building their dream home in the hills is if they're on the top of the hill, they think they're safe from fire, because all the vegetation is below them. I don't think they realize that fire and wind moves uphill.

Luca Carmignani  31:06

If your house is on top of the hill, you're pretty lucky because you probably have a great view. But that's very dangerous in terms of embers. And if you have a fire, let's say on the on the bottom of the hill,  the fire moves along the vertical slope. That's a very dangerous scenario, because the fire can move readily, and generate a lot of embers. And the embers are accelerated by the topography basically, by the landscape. And they can really get visibly shot higher up in the in the air and reach even farther away. And that's exactly the case of the fire year that we had in Orange County, the coastal fire, where basically the houses were on top of a hill, and the fire spread through a canyon. And within an hour, less than two hours old, the houses were already on fire. So there were no flame contacts. It was like a pure ember issue. And those embers came from the bottom of the hill, not from the top. So yes, unfortunately, top of the hill doesn't mean your safe. Actually, you might even be in more trouble.

Farmer Fred  32:30