183 First Garden? A Checklist

Show Transcript

Garden Basics 183 TRANSCRIPT First Garden Checklist

Farmer Fred  0:00  

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred. Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred  0:31  

We pay a visit in today’s episode to the gardens of a couple of our favorite gardeners. We chat with America’s favorite retired college horticulture professor, Debbie Flower, in her garden about a having a checklist if you’re starting your very first garden. It’s like learning from the mistakes of others. Or, to put it more politely, garden wisdom.  And, Master Gardener Pam Bone talks about her favorite peach variety. And, the benefits of getting out in the backyard orchard in early spring and thinning the fruit. Your peaches, apricots, plums, nectarines, apples and other deciduous fruit trees will thank you with big, beautiful tasty pieces of fruit this summer.  We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. And we will do it all in under 30 minutes. Let’s go!

Farmer Fred  1:32  

At one point or another, everybody has a first garden. A lot of people get the bug, maybe when they go to a nursery and see some plants they like and figure it's time to start. Whoa, just hold on a minute. Before you plant anything, we have a checklist for you. Before you start your first garden, we have things you ought to consider. Consider this, your first garden checklist. Debbie Flower is here. And here we are, in Debbie Flower's garden. And even though, Debbie, you're an accomplished gardener, a retired college horticultural professor, by the way, America's favorite retired college horticulture professor, we should point out that anytime you move to a new house, it's a new challenge. It's a new garden. And it's kind of hard to tell gardeners this, but one piece of advice is live with the yard for a year. And notice where the sun goes.

Farmer Fred  1:37  

Absolutely living with the yard for a year is very difficult to do. But it is worth doing. And I've had many gardens. And I can't say that I have the patience that would allow you to live with the garden for a year.

Farmer Fred  2:42  

Well, there's pots. Have you heard of Smart Pots?

Debbie Flower  2:45  

Yes. And then there are annuals. And so, going out with sunflower seeds in the summer or just trying things and making sure they get enough water and seeing what happens is what you can do during that first year when you need to see where the sun is in the middle of winter, in the middle of summer, in early spring, and in fall.

Farmer Fred  3:08  

Yeah, one thing we did when we moved to the new house six years ago: we lived with it for a year, we planted in pots temporarily. And I took pictures of the yard at four different times of the year, throughout the day. So, every three months or so, I'd take a picture. I'd take a picture at 9am, at noon, 3pm and 6pm. Just so I would remember where the shadows are, where the shade is. Because all the neighbors had big trees. And I wanted to know definitely which of those areas are going to get full sun, that's six to eight hours or more of sun a day. Turns out, not many areas got full sun.

Debbie Flower  3:50  

Yes. And then you convinced your neighbors to remove some of those trees which, you know, by taking those pictures, you knew what needed to go. Pictures are wonderful; not only do they inform you of sun and shade, but they show you how your yard is changing over time and what wonderful things you've done to it.

Farmer Fred  4:09  

And that's the other thing, too, to consider, even if it's not your first garden: plants grow and there are new areas of shade. So if you're going to be putting in plants that require full sun, you have to stay aware that the area that was full sun five years ago may not be full sun now. I guess when we're talking about planning a first garden, we should get a little bit more specific. Are we talking a flower garden and herb garden, a vegetable garden? I guess with the vegetable garden one thing you should make note of is what does your family enjoy eating? And no there are no french fry plants.

Debbie Flower  4:41  

Yes, I have a vegetable bed, one raised bed, and some in-ground area that I use for growing vegetables. And my production of vegetables has decreased over time because of the things my family will not eat. So why should I grow them? If nobody's going to eat them? I have neighbors I can give some stuff too. But I remember showing up at one neighbor's house with some tomatoes, and she said, "You know, I'm not gonna eat all your leftover tomatoes this summer." "Okay, fine, do you want these?" She took those, but we never took any back. So the vegetable garden has gotten smaller. And at times, I thought about just converting it to annual flowers so that I could have bouquets of flowers. I mentioned that to a horticulture friend. And she said, as long as you have a good Farmer's Market nearby, yes, you do need to decide what you're going to grow, what's going to make you happy. And look for those sun shade conditions, six to eight hours of full sun for those flowers or those vegetables is definitely desirable. And I in fact, had to move my raised bed this year, because a tree got bigger, and it started shading the bed and I wasn't getting enough sun for production.

Farmer Fred  5:51  

Another thing that beginning gardeners tend to do is: their eyes are bigger than their tummy. And when it comes to planting, they'll put in way too much, you know those suggestions on the back of seed packets, and that come with six packs of plants as far as spacing of plants, that's actually pretty good advice.

Debbie Flower  6:09  

It is. And if you're looking at landscape plants, rather than annuals, which are things you're going to grow from seed, you need to look at the size the plant is going to be when it's mature, that's typically on the tag. If not, you're gonna have to look the plant up and and find out how tall and wide it's going to become. Sometimes you only learn how tall it's going to become, then you assume it will be equally as wide, and then space them in the garden so that they will, at maturity, not run into each other. Maybe they'll touch. Then you have to decide, where is your path is going to be? Where do you want to be able to walk between the plants? Where can the plants touch, but you need to give them enough space to get big enough. A friend of mine is a landscape architect. And I asked her when I was teaching what, if there was one thing she could say to people when they are planting their gardens or yards, what would it be? And her number one thing was space the plants far enough apart. More problems are created by them being too close together than anything else. And I'm guilty of that as well, planting too close together. Because it's so easy to do. When you buy them they're so small and cute, and they look so pretty together. And having these wide spaces between them doesn't make a lot of sense, but space them for their health and for the future of your garden.

Farmer Fred  7:28  

And not only is it healthier for the plant, it also can keep bad pests and diseases away, as well. Because when you cut down air circulation by planting too close together, especially if you live in an area of high humidity, you can have all sorts of disease issues that can be mitigated by allowing air to circulate freely through those plants. 

Debbie Flower  7:46  

Absolutely true. Yes. 

Farmer Fred  7:48  

And when you're walking around your yard, figuring out what you want to plant and where you want to put it. Go inside the house and look out the windows. And think about where you spend most of your time indoors, and which windows you're going to be looking out. And think about what you want to stare at for the rest of your life out those windows. And especially if you have a kitchen window, the vegetable garden, the fruit trees, the food products should be with an easy view of that kitchen window.

Debbie Flower  8:15  

Yes, when I initially laid the hardscape in this landscape we're sitting in right now, the landscaper suggested putting the vegetable garden in a place I would not see it from the patio or any window and I said no, I have to be able to see it on a regular basis. So I tended to keep that in mind, too.

Farmer Fred  8:33  

When you're planning the garden, do some sitting inside and look out and think about what you want to see that's out there. And remember that taller plants closer to your window may block the view of whatever's behind it. So if you want a complete view of the yard, if you're going to put in those trees or those shrubs, you may want to stick those further out so you can see the rest of your garden. Or, if you're trying to create some privacy, then you would want those taller plants closer to the window.

Debbie Flower  9:02  

Or you can create outdoor garden "rooms". It makes your landscape feel bigger if you create where you can only see a small area, and then you have to walk around a plant to see the next area in your garden. Lots of different ways. I love the looking out the window idea as a way to design the garden. I don't necessarily want to see my neighbor's house when I look outside the window. And so I've done lots of view-blocking by planting trees and evergreen shrubs in places that will block those views.

Farmer Fred  9:36  

When you're planning your garden, one thing to keep in mind is: "Where's the water faucet?" How big of a chore is it going to be to water that garden? And this is where planning may require some pencil and paper because you may want to lay out an irrigation system, perhaps even a drip irrigation system.

Debbie Flower  9:54  

You may want that and in our dry California climate, that's almost a must. But I've lived in places that get rain year round, and in that case, we just needed to be near a hose bib. We still needed to be near that hose bib, instead of dragging it, you know, 50 feet across from the back of the garage over to the vegetable garden. So having that in place is critical.

Farmer Fred  10:16  

Exactly. So plan on installing a permanent irrigation system so that the water controls are as close to the garden as possible. Or if you're putting in an entire irrigation system for the whole yard. Consider valves that are dedicated to the vegetables that you can put on different timers as opposed to if you have a lawn.

Debbie Flower  10:37  

Lawns are some of the highest water users in the landscape. So many things can survive with much less water than that. Even in our climate here, that is dry definitely from May through October, I don't water most of my landscape more than once every two weeks or so. Lawns, especially lawns that are mowed, need to be watered more frequently than that. Grass needs more water so you don't want everything on the same watering regime.

Farmer Fred  11:09  

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Farmer Fred  12:59  

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Farmer Fred  14:14  

To plant a garden you need soil and if you're not doing it in pots, if you're doing it in the ground, and you haven't planted a garden in your yard before what are some first steps you should take?

Debbie Flower  14:25  

Well sometimes if you move into a place like we did here that was empty for two years, because it was back when mortgages were in trouble in 2008. The landscape was not  maintained and it was full of weeds. So the first thing to do is clear those weeds away.

Farmer Fred  14:42  

Clear the weeds away. And there is debate now about roto tilling soil. And I could justify roto tilling once, initially, to put in some compost. But if you don't want to do that, one easy way to improve your soil is through sheet mulching.

Debbie Flower  15:03  

Yes, sheet mulching. I did that at my mother's house. She wanted to add some perennials around her shed, near a light on a post in the yard near the driveway. And so one time I went out and laid down a bunch of newspaper. It takes several layers of newspaper. It is now made with soy ink. And so you use the dull pages; not the shiny ones. They may have other chemicals in them you don't want in your soil, but the dull newspaper pages, several layers, five, six layers, lay it down in the fall. I put mulch over it, bark mulch over the top, leaf mulch, whatever I could find and then let it sit. And by spring, you have smothered those weeds and you can plant into it.

Farmer Fred  15:42  

And you've improved the soil as well. 

Debbie Flower  15:44  

Right. Correct. 

Farmer Fred  15:45  

Another thing to watch in that first year before you plant is, where does the water go? Especially when after it rains? Are there muddy areas that seem to persist for days after a storm? Those areas should probably get marked off. It could be as simple as taking a t-post or a stake and just stick it in that perennial muddy area. Most plants that are desirable, don't like muddy soil. So in those areas you may want to consider raised beds or planting in pots.

Debbie Flower  16:14  

Absolutely, I have a spot like that in this yard. And I put the vegetable garden, the raised bed, near there, covering part of that wet spot. Part of it I just don't use in the winter when we get our rains here in California.

Farmer Fred  16:26  

For that person starting a garden for the first time I would kind of shy away from recommending starting from seed unless the plant typically grows from seed. Just go to the nursery and get yourself a six pack, a four pack, a gallon plant, a five or a 15 gallon containerized plant. But what are some easy, confidence-building plants to put in as far as annuals, perennials and vegetables go?

Debbie Flower  16:53  

Well, annuals are plants that complete their lifecycle in one year. Often it's a portion of one year, let's say from spring through summer, and it goes to seed and dies in the fall. Spring is a great time to garden, especially with kids. And with kids, big seeds are very desirable because they can handle them well. And they can see the results of those plants that come up quickly. And so sunflowers are one wonderful, easy to start plant. Zinnias are another one that's easy to start from seed but they are not such big seeds, though. There are beans that can you can grow from seeds, they can be bush beans, that you're going to get an edible crop from, or they can be a vining scarlet runner bean, which does give an edible crop but I often grow it just for the beautiful red flowers that it produces. And I did some research on it back when my kids were in a daycare and found that at that time, in the late 80s, the research said that a kid could eat the entire plant and not get sick. So it's a great thing to have around little ones as well.

Farmer Fred  17:58  

Perennials are plants that you can expect to last for more than a year.

Debbie Flower  18:02  

Right. And then the trick I think about perennials is planting them at the right time. Nurseries will have them when they're in flower and I would prefer to buy them when they're not in flower and put them in the ground or in a pot in the fall. Some are perennials that bloom in the fall, but there are a lot of perennials that bloom in the spring and the summer and I would prefer to plant them when they're out of flower. They root better that way.

Farmer Fred  18:27  

When it comes to planting vegetables, some of the easier ones to grow include greens, such as lettuce, but the trick with things like lettuce is, what climate do you live in? If you live in a hot climate, those lettuce and some spinach varieties and other leafy greens that you may enjoy do best in the cool season, planted between September and February-March. If it's the warm season, you could switch to some other heat loving plants that are easy to grow, perhaps tomatoes or peppers.

Debbie Flower  19:00  

Right. Cucumbers are also pretty easy to grow from seed, and they are another big seed. But all of these things we're talking about need that six to eight hours of sun. Except maybe the greens, if you have no bright sun, or if the spots of bright sun move around. A couple things to consider. One is put the plants in a pot that has wheels and move it around from sunny space to sunny space. That's a whole lot of labor, by the way. The other is to grow things in part shade where you eat the leaves, like the lettuce and greens.

Farmer Fred  19:34  

How do you feel about mulch?

Debbie Flower  19:36  

You can see my yard is full of mulch. That's one of the reasons I can water so infrequently is I have organic mulch on top of this soil. And that breaks down with the help of naturally existing organisms and then what's left is the broken-down organic matter which holds water in the soil. And that helps the plants to have an evenly-watered soil, even though I'm only applying it once every two weeks or so. The roots are getting it over a much longer period of time. I wouldn't use the same arborist mulch in my vegetable garden that I would use on my landscape. But you can buy compost, or you can make your own compost, something that is a little finer, not so much wood in the product.

Farmer Fred  20:20  

Exactly. Save the arborist clippings for your hardwood plants, and then use worm castings or compost for your soft bodied plants.  The one thing we haven't talked about, and this should be part of your first garden checklist is: how much time are you willing to devote to taking care of the garden? Because just like raising a family, it's all about maintenance.

Debbie Flower  20:42  

Yes, it really is. I like to walk my landscape every day. And I have paths. You need to set up paths when you create a garden, so that you can get around and check on things. And then the number one thing I do, is weed. But often I need to prune something that's growing out into the path. Look for the pests, see what's flowering, see what needs to be harvested, you can't know what to do in the garden if you don't visit it on a regular basis.

Farmer Fred  21:10  

Smart gardeners have multiple pairs of pruning shares that they they hide throughout the garden, in  old mailboxes or some sort of structure to protect them from the elements, which isn't a bad idea. Because as you learn to enjoy gardening, you will always have a pair of pruning shears with you.

Debbie Flower  21:27  

Yes, I have them in my car, I have them in the kitchen, I have them in the garage. And I often have one in my back pocket.

Farmer Fred  21:34  

One thing you notice as you become familiar with your garden: you're going to find out when your plant is healthy and when it's not healthy, just by observing. That's something you've said a lot on this podcast: get out there and spend time with your plants.

Debbie Flower  21:49  

That's right, get to know them, enjoy them, and visit them. So you know when things are starting to go wrong, it's so much easier to control a problem at the beginning when it starts to happen, rather than waiting until it gets much bigger. And the number one example of that is weeds. Weeds are much easier to control when they're small. But if you let them flower and produce seed, then you've just increased the problem.

Farmer Fred  22:13  

Attack weeds early. And by the way, one helpful hint that a lot of experienced gardeners follow is they realize while they're having their morning coffee, oh, I need to get out in the yard and do such and such today. Write it down, put it in your pocket. Because when you go outside, you're going to find other things to do first. And before you know it, four hours have gone by and you're going to ask yourself, "Why did I come out here originally?" 

Debbie Flower  22:37  

That is so true. My filing system is my pants pockets. I do write them down, the chores that I think need to be done. I've been known to wake up in the middle of the night and write things down. Because, for whatever reason, it's going through my head. So yes, you do. It's like the jokes about people going into one room to do something, and never doing it, because they find something else to do. The garden is just the same way.

Farmer Fred  23:03  

We'll have this checklist on the "Beyond the Basics" newsletter that comes out on Friday so you can look for it there. I hope you weren't trying to take notes and drive and listen, all at the same time. So again, it'll be part of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred "Beyond the Basics" newsletter coming out this Friday, your first garden checklist. Debbie Flower, great to be in your garden, thank you.

Debbie Flower  23:23  

I'm glad you're enjoying it. My pleasure.

Farmer Fred  23:27  

The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast has a lot of information posted at each episode in the show notes. Maybe you’d rather read than listen? Not a problem, a complete transcript is posted, and you can find that link in the show notes or on our new homepage, gardenbasics.net, where you can find that link as well as all the previous episodes of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. There, you can leave a message or link up with our social media pages, including our You Tube video page. And at garden basics dot net. click on the tab at the top of the page to read the Garden Basics “Beyond Basics” newsletter, which usually has a bonus podcast attached to it. Plus, in the show notes, there are links to any products or books mentioned during the show, and other helpful links for even more information. Plus, you can listen to just the portions of the show that interest you, it’s been divided into easily accessible chapters.  Want to leave us a question? Again, check the links at garden basics.net. Also, when you click on any episode at garden basics.net, you’ll find a link to Speakpipe, where you can leave us an audio question without a making a phone call. Or, go to them directly: speak pipe dot com slash garden basics. You want to call us? We have that number posted at garden basics dot net. Spoiler alert: it’s 916-292-8964, 916-292-8964. Email? Sure! Send it, along with your pictures to fred@farmerfred.com. Or again, go to garden basics dot net and get that link. And if you send us a question, be sure to tell us where you’re gardening, because all gardening is local. Find it all at garden basics dot net.

Farmer Fred  25:22  

We're with Pam Bone in her backyard, here in Sacramento County. Pam Bone is a Sacramento County Master Gardener. And we were recently doing a little tour of her backyard. And she stopped at this peach tree and went into high gear about why she loves this peach tree. Pam, what is this peach tree?

Pam Bone  25:37  

This is Suncrest. We were at the State Fair, the California State Fair one year, and they were selling these peaches. And we bought one to eat and it was phenomenal. I said what is that peach? And it was Suncrest. So we said, "okay, the next time we have a space open up in the landscape, we are putting it in." We had a another kind of peach here, it was a Babcock, and nobody liked it. It was a beautiful tree, though. But we said nope, we're taking it out and we planted the Suncrest. And I don't regret it at all. It has the most delicious peaches, it bears beautifully. You can keep it nice and small. And yet look at this crop already developing beautiful tree. Wonderful.

Farmer Fred  26:14  

We should point out, too, it looks like you've been doing some thinning of the fruit, with a little bit more to come. But basically you're looking for spacing about the width of a fist between the remaining pieces of fruit in order for that fruit to develop a good size.

Pam Bone  26:25  

Yes, this is one thing that both of us get out here and do. We've already done one pass through, we kind of wait awhile to make the next pass, to just make sure, just in case you get a little bit of drop, if something happens, or whatever. But the most critical one is when the fruit is still as small as it is here. And that's going to give you the best size. So we're looking for that. And so yes, I can see right here, here's a double (two pieces of fruit growing together). I can just pinch it with my finger right now and take it off. And I think I'll do that while we're standing here.

Farmer Fred  26:54  

You've kept the tree at about six feet tall, and it's got about a six foot spread too. So it makes a very nice looking "fruit shrub" that probably gives enough Suncrest peaches for you and your family.

Pam Bone  27:05 

Actually it produces so much fruit that I was able to freeze two quarts of peaches in addition to making a peach pie and eating fresh peaches from this tree. And this tree is only, I think, five years old now. It's truly amazing. It has just grown beautifully, it bears beautifully, and the fruit is just delicious. And it's a good sized fruit. But you do have to thin in order to get that, as well, too. But you're right. We're kind of now at the stage where we've developed the main scaffolds, the secondaries have been developed. We've got our tertiaries. and Now we're just maintaining the height and going to keep it as is.

Farmer Fred  27:38  

There you go. The Suncrest peach. You may want to plant one. Pam Bone, thank you.

Pam Bone  27:42  

Thank you

Farmer Fred  27:48  

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