116 Less Water for Fruit Trees. Growing Citrus in Containers.

Show Transcript

GB 116 TRANSCRIPTION Fruit Trees, Less Water. Citrus in Containers

29:32

SPEAKERS

Debbie Flower, Tom Spellman, Carrie of Sac, Farmer Fred

Farmer Fred  00:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred

Farmer Fred  00:20

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, well, you've come to the right spot. 

Farmer Fred  00:32

Facing water restrictions during this drought, we have some tips on how to be able to apply less water to your fruit trees and still have a bountiful harvest. Yes, you can grow citrus trees in containers successfully if you treat them right. And that includes choosing the right container, the right soil, and the right fertilizer. Plus, we have a few other nifty ideas for citrus success in containers. Garden Basics is brought to you today by Smart Pots. Give a listen to find out how you can win a free Smart Pot. It's all on Episode 116 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go. 

Farmer Fred  01:14

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast, and we want to hear your voice too. So please leave an audio question. And you can do that without making a phone call. Do it via speakpipe, at speakpipe.com slash garden basics. It's easy, give it a try. You can call and leave a question via the telephone, as well, at 916-292-8964. 916-292-8964. And you can also use that number to text us questions, maybe a picture of the problematic plant. So here's a little incentive to either leave a voice message at speakpipe.com slash gardenbasics, or call and leave a question at 916-292-8964. If we use your audio question on any episode, during the month of July, you will get, courtesy of the great folks at Smart Pots, a free, Smart Pots six foot long raised bed fabric planter, also known as the Smart Pot long bed. It's rectangular in shape. It has built in partitions, 16 inches wide, 16 inches tall, six feet long. It holds over 10 and a half cubic feet of soil. So again, call us with your garden question, 916-292-8964. Or, go to Speakpipe.com slash gardenbasics. That's one word, GardenBasics. And you can record your question there online. And if we use your question during the month of July on the Garden Basics podcast, you're getting a free Smart Pot raised bed planter. By the way, be sure to tell us in your message where you live so we can get a better answer to your garden question. Because, as I'm very fond of saying, all gardening is local. So come on, join the garden fun here on the Garden Basics podcast.      

Farmer Fred  03:04

Many areas of the West and Midwest are in a drought. We are all trying to save some water on our landscape and in our gardens. Is that possible with fruit trees? Can you withhold water from fruit trees and yet have a bountiful crop? We'll ask that of Tom Spellman. He's with Dave Wilson nursery wholesale grower of fruit and nut varieties throughout the western United States. And Tom, is it possible to cut back on water on fruit trees?

Tom Spellman  03:33

Oh, absolutely, Fred. And I think one of the things that people need to realize is the water use is all in perspective to the size of the plant. So if you're going to grow a 20 foot fruit tree or a 30 foot fruit tree, it's going to take a lot more water than if you're going to grow an eight or a 10 foot fruit tree. So I think this this is one of the reasons that we have been preaching size management for three decades. You know, we want to make sure that people, number one, have a tree that's reasonable in size and stature that they can handle without having to drag out the big pole pruners and eight foot ladders and things like that. So size management is very important when it comes to being able to do work conveniently and easily. But what people don't realize is that it takes considerably less water to manage an eight or 10 foot fruit tree than it does a 20 or 30. In fact, you know less than than half the amount. If you're irrigating properly and irrigating thoroughly and letting the tree go slightly dry in between. You can develop a root system that can take some time in between irrigations and still thrive and still do well without physical stress.

Farmer Fred  04:40

What size fruit trees are we talking about here when you control the size of a fruit tree? What are the dimensions you would be looking at the finished product?

Tom Spellman  04:50

Well, and there again, it all depends on your landscapes. There are so many different ways you can grow a fruit tree. It doesn't have to be a tree. it can be a hedge, it can be an espalier on a trellis. it can be a small managed patio tree that's no more than than five or six feet. And in fact, I've worked on a couple of projects with handicapped veterans in the past where they wanted wheelchair accessibility for their fruit trees. So they were decomposed granite paths that were that were packed down with wheelchair access and, and fruit trees that were no more than five feet high. And those were easily managed and easily controlled and provided a great harvest of fruit. You know, for these, these veterans and their rehabilitation, you can manage a tree that small, I mean, for me, I think I can easily manage a seven or eight foot tree. And that absolutely comes into play, especially with stone fruits, especially with varieties that have a short hang time on the tree. You know, if it's an avocado, or if it's a lemon, or a navel orange and it's a little bit bigger, I can still manage that easily, the fruits gonna hang on the tree for three or four or five months. But when it comes to a peach or a plum, or a nectarine or an Apricot, you've got a one to three weeks, hang time for mature ripe fruit. So I want something I can get through easily. I want a tree that I can walk up next to and put my hand up and reach the highest piece of fruit on the tree. 

Farmer Fred  06:20

For the sake of argument, let's talk about having a backyard full of six foot tall fruit trees, the width, I would think then would be what five or six feet, then?

Tom Spellman  06:28

Yeah, or even a little more, you can have one that's wider in stature than in height. So you know, it's not difficult to manage a tree that's eight or nine feet wide, and maybe six or seven feet tall.

Farmer Fred  06:40

But still, that eight or nine foot width is far less than what a full size fruit tree could easily get if you didn't control the size. And that means with a fruit tree that has the smaller dimensions, it has a smaller root system that's only going out maybe five or six feet. And which means you have you don't have to apply as much water, you're going to be applying less water, because most of those feeder roots are going to be basically beneath the tree towards the outer canopy. 

Tom Spellman  07:08

Absolutely correct Fred and you know, I always tell people, if you're going to irrigate a fruit tree, I would like to look for the dimensions of the canopy. So if it's  eight feet wide, and in a circle, I would say irrigate out about two feet beyond that, and you're going to thoroughly irrigate the entire root system. So that being said, you want to make sure number one, that in these drought stressed times, which we often have in in California, that we're taking that into consideration, and we are not allowing any runoff, there's any water running off, you're wasting water. So you need to rechannel a little bit. you need to make sure that your basins are correct. And that your lay of your land is correct. So that  water is all going to percolate in, you don't want to be running any down the driveway or down the street. That's  a total waste and inexcusable in my opinion.

Farmer Fred  08:00

And one of the best ways to do that to help ensure there is no runoff is to apply the water much more slowly. And it doesn't get much more slow than using a drip irrigation system.

Tom Spellman  08:11

Drip irrigation works perfect, or you know, the orchard type spinners. I mean, you can even use a basic shrub head, but I think drip irrigation, I always like drip irrigation. If you can see from the surface what the drip irrigation is doing. Sometimes people will bury it under their mulch or if it ends up you know, underneath some some topsoil that washes in and you can't really see how the drip irrigation is is applying. So you don't know if it's clogged or you don't know if there's a problem. I like to be able to walk out there and visually see my irrigation system running. So I'm a little more friendly with some of the like the orchard spinners and, and shrub heads and things like that. But I can watch as they work and see the pattern that they throw and see you know how they irrigate. So that's what works best for me. But there's all kinds of opportunity to use drip irrigation to your advantage with all kinds of different heads and different application tips. So there's many, many, many different options when it comes to drip irrigation and you know where we're going next. And that is mulch.  I can't explain in enough detail or take enough time to talk about how important a good strong mulching program is, not only for water conservation, it's going to make better use of your irrigation water. We know proven fact by 50%. So you know I can theoretically put on half as much or put it on half as often and save 50% of my irrigation water on my fruit orchard just by applying a three or four or six inch layer of mulch. So that's, that's huge. If that was the only reason that I was mulching I would be in favor. But you've got several other great reasons. number two: in areas where the summer temperatures are hot three or four or six inch layer of mulch keeps your soil temperature down during the hottest part of the summer by 10, 15, even 20 degrees in some areas, and that is huge. I mean, that allows those, those feeder roots to function right there at the soil surface where they take up irrigation and nutrients, you know, so effectively, without having any damage from that, that summer heat on that soil. So, again, if that was the only reason to mulch, I'm in favor, I think it would be worthwhile just for that reason. But then you've got another good reason, bio-activity. A good three or four or six inch layer of mulch increases that bio-activity right at the soil surface. So you get some positive breakdown between the mulch in the soil surface, you get mychorraezal activity, you get beneficial insects and fungi that help those trees to take up nutrients and irrigation water in a much, much more effective manner. So you're allowing that tree to function like that tree would function in nature, like it was in a forest, or a jungle condition and having just that type of a mulch layer on the floor. And the fourth reason, which is probably as good a reason as any, that three or better inch layer of mulch will keep weed seed surface germination down by 75 to 80%. And what's the worst chore in the garden, everybody hates it, you know, everybody dreads going out there and pulling weeds. And if you let them go to seed, you're just reproducing your own weed crop for next month. So if I can keep my weed seed population down by 75%, by just putting a layer of mulch out there I'm in. So there's four great reasons to mulch, 

Farmer Fred  11:45

I'll give you a fifth. 

Tom Spellman  11:46

go ahead. 

Farmer Fred  11:47

A lot of people let their lawn grow right up next to their fruit trees. And so when they're weed whacking the lawn or mowing the lawn, they accidentally bang into the tree. And one of the biggest reasons for a tree's decline is injury to that tree near the soil level. So every time you hit it with a weed whacker, every time you bang into it with a mower, you're damaging the bark, which can cause an influx of disease or possible pests. And by staying away from that tree,  think of that mulch layer as sort of your demilitarized zone where you don't have to step foot on.

Tom Spellman  12:23

I couldn't agree more, Fred, I think that's a great fifth reason, I'm going to use that in my lectures going forward. Because I've only I've only used those four, but I think that one is as good as the four that I had come up with.

Farmer Fred  12:36

When people think of mulch, probably everybody has a different idea of what mulch is. One of my favorite sources of mulch is your local tree trimmer. Because those varying sizes have chipped and shredded tree parts, they break down at different times, the smaller parts are quicker to feed the soil, the bigger parts allow more porosity, for air to get in, and that water too. And you talk about using micro sprayers on top so you can see. And I think that's a great idea to seeing those micro sprayers in action. So you know if there's a problem, you can fix it right away. But about by having the larger chunks with the smaller pieces, that allows the water from those sprayers to better percolate into the soil.

Tom Spellman  13:14

That is absolutely correct. And I'm fully on board with that. I love the large particulate mulch, I love the material. I have a couple of arborists that I work with on a regular basis. And I always tell them, I'm looking for biodiversity. You know, if you've been pruning Eucalyptus for three days, I don't want that load. But if you've been pruning, some Eucalyptus and some pine and some junipers and you know, you've worked in  some hedges and you're pruning a sycamore or you know all this different type of material, that's the load that I want. I want that biodiverse material. So if you get it direct from the arborist, that's what I would request, but if you're getting it from one of the greenwaste recycle sources, nine out of 10 times you're going to get that anyway because they're working with all of that material that the arborist are dropping off maybe some construction trash with, you know, two by fours or, or whatever. And once they get all that ground up together, it makes a really nice biodiverse mob. So you get that breakdown at different times at different levels. And by getting the diversity in chunk size, I want everything from a quarter of an inch to four or five or six inches, you know, because that that material lays at all it all these different angles and levels and gives you that airy, fluffy, breathable, nice layer of molds where if you're putting down a mulch that's all one size fits all half inch or you know, chunk then it can sometimes get a little anaerobic or get a little soggy and maybe maybe it can even hold a little too much water. So I think the bigger chunk biodiverse material is the only way to go when it comes to mulch.

Farmer Fred  15:00

I'm sure there are gardeners listening to us now who would rather have a nicer looking mulch than perhaps chipped or shredded tree parts. Well, fine then. Buy a bag, a big bag of small bark, a bag of medium bark, a bag of large bark and mix it all together and put that down.

Tom Spellman  15:17

Yeah, or simply top off your mulch layer, you can put two or three inches of the biodiverse big chunk stuff down and put some bark on top, you know, just the only thing that I would recommend that people stay away from is I've seen a lot of these mulches now where they're dying them, they're using Redwood colored dye or a black dye, or you know, all kinds of different strange colors that really shouldn't even be seen in nature. So I don't want to put anything down on my soil that has an artificial dye. So I would, I would recommend that people keep away from those. Now, if it's an area where you're not planting anything, and you just want that cover, I have no problem with that. But if it's an area where I'm looking for that, you know, biodiversity and I'm looking to build that mycorrhizal activity and you know, wanting to use it for all those benefits that we talked about, then the dyes are out, I want something that's that's natural in color.

Farmer Fred  16:13

Getting back to watering with micro sprayers. As you mentioned, that is really a great idea for irrigating fruit trees and nut trees. They have a sample set up at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center and the way that they've organized it around their size-controlled fruit trees, and around each tree. They have four sprayers, 90 degrees sprayers, they're positioned about halfway out from the trunk, towards the end of the drip line of the tree, the outer canopy, they're pointing towards the outer canopy. So they have four sprayers around the tree halfway out, spraying to just beyond the canopy of the tree, it uses a lot less water than spray sprinklers or impulse sprinklers. And if a problem develops, you see it right away. And you don't have to run the water that long, because you got four sprayers going on.

Tom Spellman  16:51

The best possible scenario. I mean, even if one plugs up or two plugs up, you know, you still have your backup, you're not going to have any physical stress on those trees and you're going to catch it in time to be able to repair it. So I think that makes perfect sense being able to spray out away from from those trunks and get those areas right out to the drip line and beyond. And that Fair Oaks project. It never ceases to amaze me. What a wonderful job they've done on putting that together and selecting varieties and their, you know, their pruning styles. And some of the things that they've done are very, very innovative. And I've always been impressed with that project every time I've seen it.

Farmer Fred  17:46

We're hoping that COVID-19 restrictions will be lifted sooner than later so everybody can go out and see it for themselves.

Tom Spellman  17:53

Absolutely, absolutely. I think we're getting closer and closer every day. Yep.

Farmer Fred  17:57

Well, we've learned a lot about how you can use less water and still have thriving fruit and nut trees. Tom Spellman is with Dave Wilson nursery. visit their website, DaveWilson.com , for more information. Tom Spellman. Thanks for the good tips on saving water in the orchard. 

Tom Spellman  18:13

Always a pleasure, Fred. 

Farmer Fred  18:18

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Farmer Fred  19:42

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. Debbie Flower is here to help us out. Debbie, good to see you.

Debbie Flower  19:49

Yeah, always good to see you, Fred

Farmer Fred  19:51

Are you enjoying your summer?

Debbie Flower  19:52

Yes, trying to stay cool.

Farmer Fred  19:53

Yes it is. That raises all sorts of issues taking the first scenic bypass of the day here about watering plants. And probably the most critical plants that need water when it gets into the 90s or triple digits are containerized plants, right?

Debbie Flower  20:10

They're smaller,  their roots have less access to moist media, and so they dry out more quickly.

Farmer Fred  20:16

Yeah. And if it gets really hot, you might have to water them twice a day or move them to a shadier spot, or mulch them or surround them with other pots. 

Debbie Flower  20:25

Yes, I have mine, all collected together in one location. But I tried to put the pots with the best insulation on the sunny side of that mass of pots.

Farmer Fred  20:35

Ah, and that helps.

Debbie Flower  20:37

Yes, that pot and usually it's often a pot in a pot, a grow pot inside a ceramic pot, let's say. And so the ceramic pot is what's getting the direct sun and then the grow pot stays cooler.

Farmer Fred  20:49

Speaking of containers, we have a question that came in via Speakpipe. It's really easy. You go to Speakpipe.com slash garden basics, and then yell into your phone or your computer or whatever you yell into and leave a question. And during the month of July, we are going to be giving away a Smart Pot for every audio question that we use. So speakpipe dot com slash gardenbasics. Or you can call and leave a question at 916-292-8964, 916-292-8964. So let's find out what Carrie of Sacramento has on her gardening mind today,

Carrie of Sac  21:30

We have several citrus trees on our property that are planted directly in ground. And now we want to add some in containers. What are some things we should be aware of when caring for those trees in containers, versus the ones we have directly in ground? Would they be on the same feeding schedule as my other trees? Or will I have to feed them more frequently?

Farmer Fred  21:50

Good question.

Debbie Flower  21:51

Very good question. Yeah, yes. 

Farmer Fred  21:53

And yeah, growing food in containers, it's a little tricky.

Debbie Flower  22:00

It's different than growing in the ground and growing a perennial, something that is persistent from year to year like a citrus tree, is even a little bit more difficult.

Farmer Fred  22:10

I would think the size of the container would be important.

Debbie Flower  22:12

The size of the container is hugely important. And it should be huge. It should be a huge pot, right? Minimum size would be half of a whiskey or wine barrel, I would think.

Farmer Fred  22:23

 Wow. Okay. And it would need drainage of course, absolutely. 

Debbie Flower  22:27

And if you are using those whiskey or wine barrels, they often don't have drainage. And drilling holes in the bottom requires a drill, obviously, and kind of wood boring bit. Yes, and a wood boring bit of decent size. 

Farmer Fred  22:42

You want to put several holes in the bottom, three quarter inch or one inch bores through the bottom, like you say, four or five holes. And then if it is in a whiskey barrel or wine barrel, you do want to make sure it is not coming in contact with the soil. That bottom part, even though there might be like a half inch or one inch lip on the surrounding edge of that barrel that tends to sink in the ground.

Debbie Flower  23:03

Right? So you're saying the outside of the pot shouldn't come in contact with the field soil, right? Right. I've always done mine on the patio at the edge of the soil. So it's on concrete. But if you're putting this wooden pot on soil, you would want to raise it on bricks or, or rocks or stepping stones or something like that.

Farmer Fred  23:24

So if you can imagine the size and the quantity that a half barrel could hold.

Debbie Flower  23:41

Yeah, I'd have to stop and do the math.

Farmer Fred  23:43

No, you just pour bags into a barrel!

Debbie Flower  23:46

Well, I like to do the math and then proportion my media. I put rock of some sort in the media, not big rock but some type of pumice which is from volcanoes or perlite which is not my favorite but it's accessible, easy to get or small gravel, sand, something that will not break down like the rest of the media will break down. I buy a bag of or several obviously to fill a container of that size of outdoor potting media. And then I will mix it probably at least 1/3 with the pumice or the rock product. I like to know approximately how much I need all together.

Farmer Fred  24:34

And I bet you thoroughly moisten it first.

Debbie Flower  24:36

 I do. Yes, yes.

Farmer Fred  24:38

All right. And fertilization of plants and containers, especially food crops like citrus trees. I guess it would be the old "weekly, weakly" rule and I'll let you explain that. It's the two different kinds of week/weak.

Debbie Flower  24:51

Yeah, weekly meaning once every week or so and weakly meaning not strong. So you want to give the plant a fairly even supply of nutrition along with water, regular water so that it never runs out that container. The only place that plant is going to get nutrition from. And so if it runs out, the plant will have problems. And so you want to make sure you're giving it regularly. The growers that you and I both know, have them all in containers, and they fertilize them all the time.

Farmer Fred  25:25

Yeah. And the reason for that is when you water, you're leaching out the nutrients.

Debbie Flower  25:30

Yes, and you want to do that, because excess nutrients can build up. If you've ever had a container, usually see it mostly on ceramic containers that has white crystal and stuff on the outside, that's excess fertilizer, and it's in the salt form and it builds up there. You get too much excess fertilizer in a container. And it is bad for the plant.

Farmer Fred  25:52

With a containerized mix that has such a free-flowing media in it, you will need to water. I will say "widely." I'm thinking of people who use drip irrigation tubing in mixes in large containers. And a lot of times those drip drip drips just go straight down. They don't moisten the entire soil mass in there.

Debbie Flower  26:14

Right, so you can still use a microspray, a spray micro emitter would be good in the container.

Farmer Fred  26:19

Exactly. Yeah, one of those that sends out like eight little fingers in all directions, sort of umbrella shaped.

Debbie Flower  26:25

And you can get half umbrella too. So you can put them all around the periphery. Maybe put one in the middle, you went head to head coverage, it's called. You want those sprays from one emitter to reach the next emitter. 

Farmer Fred  26:38

And if you're going on vacation, you might want to hook up a timer to it to have it come on maybe twice a day in the summertime. 

Debbie Flower  26:44

Yes. Depends on Yes, the heat and the exposure of the plant. Citrus does need full sun. So this pot will probably be in full sun.

Farmer Fred  26:51

Fertilizer. Probably I would think a complete fertilizer, something with macro and micronutrients.

Debbie Flower  26:56

Yes, citrus fertilizer is often granular. And you can check on the there's always an active ingredients list on a fertilizer bag and it will tell you what nutrients are in there. And it will contain probably zinc and iron and some other micronutrients which citrus tend to run out of before other plants do. And so that's why it's in the citrus fertilizer. A granular fertilizer would work if you are using spray emitters, not if you're using drip emitters.

Farmer Fred  27:26

So there you go. Citrus in containers, big pots, easy draining soil, make sure there is good drainage, fertilize weakly, weekly, right.

Debbie Flower  27:35

Over time, the organic portion of the media that is in the container will break down in a year or so the media will sink. And that's where having a perennial plant is a little more difficult than having an annual plant. You can't just dig it up. And you can, yes, actually, I've talked about refreshing the media, you can do it with citrus, I would do it in spring, that's when it's going to begin to become active, you could not take it all out of the pot. You'll find roots all around the edges probably all around the bottom of the container because that's where they hit the edge and they have to stop or change direction. Trim the roots a little bit and add more media to the existing existing media in the pot, shovel it around, dig it up, add some air back into it, replant the citrus into the pot. You do not want to just add more media to the top. You will kill the citrus. You will have it up around the trunk of the plant and citrus have quite a few sensitive roots at the surface. So that's the tricky part.

Farmer Fred  28:41

Yeah. And if you can do it as recommended as far as lifting the plant out and root pruning it, and replacing the soil every three to five years. You're doing better than us. 

Debbie Flower  28:49

Yes. You get my star of approval. Yeah, do that. Yeah, absolutely.

Farmer Fred  28:54

It's up to you. But again, it's a viable option: citrus in containers. It's Debbie Flower. Thanks for helping out, answering Carri of Sacramento's question there.

Debbie Flower  29:02

Oh, it's a pleasure Fred.

Farmer Fred  29:08

Garden Basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday. It's brought to you by Smart Pots. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. And that includes Apple, Iheart, Stitcher, Spotify, Overcast, Google, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, and Pocket Casts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.