065 Tree Issues? Consulting Arborists Can Help

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Farmer Fred  0:00  

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Farmer Fred 2  0:20  

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, well, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred  0:32  

A fully grown, properly placed, healthy tree can add thousands of dollars of extra value to your property. That's something to consider when it comes time to move. But in the meantime, how do you know your trees are really healthy? And how do you know if your neighbor's trees are healthy? After all, those trees on the other side of the fence might be causing you a lot of extra work, extra expense, or even danger. The only way to find out is to hire a consulting arborist. What does a consulting arborist do? We're going to find out today when we talk with consulting arborist Michael Santos, and we have tips for you to determine whether your trees need help. It's Episode 65 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast brought to you by smart pots. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go.

Farmer Fred  1:25  

Quite often in my career of answering your garden questions, especially when you have tree questions, my answer is usually that's going to take an on site evaluation, you need to call in a professional and a lot of people will call in someone, it's usually an arborist. And I try to steer people towards a consulting arborist. Now what exactly is a consulting arborist? Do they have chainsaws in the back of their pickup truck? Oh, maybe. let's find out. We're talking with Michael Santos. He works in the Bay Area where he is a consulting arborist. He's a consulting arborist, horticulturist, and palm specialist providing a variety of services for trees, specimen palms and landscape issues, including problem diagnosis, health and structure evaluations, landscape assessments. Michael Santos is a consulting arborist. He's part of a group called the American Society of consulting arborist and Michael, what exactly is a consulting arborist?

Michael Santos  2:24  

Well, Fred, thank you for having me today. Well, in terms of consulting arborists, we think of ourselves as professional arborists, who are authorities on trees, palms, and, and woody plants, we tend to have extensive knowledge and experience on both things that affect tree health, their cultural requirements, disease and pest decay, evaluation, safety and tree preservation issues. So we cover a wide range of issues.

Farmer Fred  2:55  

A lot of times, people have problems with their neighbors' trees, maybe because they're in poor shape, or there's a lot of litter or the roots are invasive. And a lot of times the person doesn't want to talk to their neighbor. And they bring in somebody when actually a lot of these problems could very easily be solved by having a simple conversation with your neighbor about the problematic tree. How does that work in the world of being a consulting arborist? Why would you want to put yourself in the middle of a dispute?

Michael Santos  3:28  

You know, oftentimes what what our clients find when there is a problem tree that they may find that, you know, with a report from a consulting arborist, they may find that that third party neutral report will provide enough background and enough information to begin a dialogue and get that dialogue going with with the other party in hopes of actually getting to solving the problem, whether it involves a tree removal,  involves pruning and ongoing maintenance, or pest control issues. So sometimes that neutral party can in fact, bring those two parties together.

Farmer Fred  4:05  

And when a consulting arborist looks at a tree, what do you look at?

Michael Santos  4:11  

you know, it really depends on what the assignment is. But I would say, in general, if we are, you know, looking at trees, one of our more typical evaluations would be to look at the tree in terms of health and structure, and to provide tailored management recommendations on how to maintain the tree or to mitigate an issue if the tree is excessively heavy, and it needs to have particular pruning specifications written. the consulting arborist would do that. If there is a need to do further evaluation on the tree as an example to do decay detection and try to determine how much sound wood there is in a tree versus healthy wood to make sure that it has structural integrity to be able to survive. In the current environment, a consulting arborist may do that as well.

Farmer Fred  5:04  

Indeed, when when you go out to look at a tree, you're looking up into the canopy, you're staring straight at the trunk. Again, I imagine you're looking down at the root area as well.

Michael Santos  5:14  

Absolutely. One of the other evaluations that a consulting arborist may recommend is, there's any indication of decay fungi, whether it be fruiting bodies, like mushrooms from Oak root fungus, or a wood rotting decay fungus that's producing a fruiting body attached to the lower trunk or, or the roots. So sometimes soil needs to be removed. So the integrity of the large buttress or structural roots providing the physical support for the tree can really be assessed,

Farmer Fred  5:46  

What are some of the most common mistakes or problems that you see?

Michael Santos  5:51  

I think, in general, I'd say probably one of the most common mistakes with trees generally, is when the client has hired a tree company or a variety of tree companies in the past. And they have pruned the tree excessively and improperly to a point where they have altered or adversely affected the structure of the tree. Because at that point, sometimes it can be very difficult or a very long term process to try to, you know, methodically and over time restore the tree structure. So, as an example, there is one style of pruning that was that was popular many, many years ago. And it's still done today. But it should not be done, which is called Lions tailing where the trees, internal branches and growth is removed so that it's stripped out. And that exposes the tree structure, which a lot of people find aesthetically pleasing. But what it does is it concentrates the weight on the end of the branches where the trees are less prepared to support that weight. So that does a disservice for the tree and can increase or elevate the risk of you know, a branch failure when the weight is concentrated at the end of the tree. So I'd say that's probably in a general sense, one of the most common problems we see is improper or excessive pruning.

Farmer Fred  7:19  

Yeah, and that pruning style that you are mentioning sounds like it would be for a homeowner, what they would want to do if they wanted to put a nightlight on the tree, if they want to do light up their landscape in the evening. It is certainly much more dramatic when you have that sparse canopy where it looks like a martini glass, if you will, with the branches going out and nothing on the interior. That would be very dramatic, but it also shortens the life of the tree.

Michael Santos  7:47  

That's correct, because all of those you know excessive pruning cuts can which create wounds. Anytime we do pruning, it creates a wound on the on the tree. And those pruning cuts can end up being what we would call an entry point or entry court for certain diseases and insects to to get in the tree or in the case of a smooth bark tree, like say, a southern magnolia as an example or a birch that has a smoother, thinner bark. You can open it up to, you know, an abiotic disorder, which we would call sunburn or sunscald to where the tissue becomes overheated, and the cambium layer gets killed and the tissue erupts and then that can lead to declining health on that on that branch.

Farmer Fred  8:39  

As I'm sure you're very aware of, most people, when they're shopping for tree services, they will go with the low bid. And sometimes that low bid is put in by a person who doesn't have any arboreal credentials to speak of, let alone insurance. It truly is a guy with a pickup truck and a chainsaw in the back and can cause more problems for many reasons, not only the health of the tree, but if something happens to him, if something happens to a branch falling into a neighbor's yard and break something or on a house or on a car, that liability would rest with the homeowner, wouldn't it?

Michael Santos  9:20  

Typically it would. although my disclaimer is I'm certainly not an attorney. But as a tree owner, there certainly are responsibilities that go along with, you know, the maintenance of the trees that are on your property. It's important to get your trees looked at every few years to make sure they are in a good state of health.

Farmer Fred  9:41  

Does a consulting arborist work with other arborists? I think a lot of people may have that fear that if they hire a consulting arborist, they're going to try to sell the homeowner a bill of goods that would include the guys with the chainsaws and The chipper shredder to come out and make some real money.

Michael Santos  10:03  

Well, there there are occasions where sometimes a consulting arborist may have a tree care firm who is actually their client where they want to have that that third party independent report to show their client perhaps a more in depth evaluation than the company the tree care company can provide itself and to help perhaps help motivate them to have certain treatments applied to the tree for the benefit of the tree, whether that happens to be things like pruning or support systems like cabling or bracing, or propping or fertilization or a decay evaluation. So sometimes we actually do work for tree care firms as a consultant,

Farmer Fred  10:54  

And some good tree care firms also have consulting arborist on staff,

Michael Santos  10:58  

that is true many, many tree care companies, especially some of the larger firms, but smaller independent firms as well, you know, also offer consulting services and can do a very good job, you know, for their clients. So a consulting arborist can be strictly independent and not have a tree care firm attached to their their company and another consulting arborist may in fact work for a tree care company.

Farmer Fred  11:26  

And I would think, too, that with a consulting arborist, the warning make sure they are licensed bonded and insured would hold true with consulting arborists as well as with the other arborists.

Michael Santos  11:38  

Absolutely. Most tree care companies, you know, should be fully licensed and insured because of the nature of the work they do is  dangerous work. it can be dangerous because of tree size or tree location, location to utility lines or over structures a home or an arbor building. And so most certainly all of the good tree care companies are very well and properly insured. And likewise consulting arborists would typically have insurance that would involve professional liability. And another part of the policy would be errors and omissions insurance, which would be typical of what you would expect with a consulting arborist or engineer or landscape architect or other design professionals.

Farmer Fred  12:35  

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Farmer Fred 2  13:45  

Let's continue our conversation with consulting arborist Michael Santos. Right now, I would imagine there are many listeners saying Well, where do I find a consulting arborist? Well, you know, I'm looking at a tab on a website that says find a consulting arborist and it's at the website of the American Society of Consulting Arborists. Now in fairness there is a find an arborist tab also at the International Society of Arboriculture. But that includes a wide variety of different types of arborists, whereas at the ASCA, The American Society of Consulting Arborists, the consulting arborist tab is true to its name. Everybody on there is a consulting arborist and all you have to do is enter in basically your zip code and the services that you want provided. And there's a laundry list of services listed there that you may want to take advantage of.

Michael Santos  14:45  

That's correct that the American Society of Consulting Arborists, or as we often say ASCA, does have that tab and that search feature. And you know, whether it's a individual property owner or company business or municipality, they can search very conveniently by name or city and state or zip code, not only throughout California, but throughout the United States. And they can also, there's a feature there to narrow your search in terms of miles from your individual location. So if there are ASCA members or a registered consulting arborist who have that designation within ASCA in their area, those should all show up in the search. It's a significant organization, but it's not a huge organization, there are only a little over 600 members of ASCA, scattered across the US. And there are currently 135 that are registered consulting arborists that are actually based in the state of California.

Farmer Fred 2  15:51  

We have said many times during our chat about the importance of getting your trees looked at on a regular basis every few years. As a homeowner, when they're looking at a tree, what should they be looking at for possible red flags?

Michael Santos  16:08  

I'm glad you you circled back to this question, Fred, because I wanted to say that I think a consulting arborist can provide the best value actually, in many cases for a homeowner, when they actually call us before they need us. That is, they think their tree is fine. Or maybe they've just acquired the property and these trees are new to them, they have no history with them, and they want to know what they need to do. So I think oftentimes, an arborist can provide the best value before something negatively has happened to the tree like a large limb failure, or a significant disease has started, and so on. So calling us sooner rather than later, can really help the longevity and the outcome for their trees.

Farmer Fred 2  16:55  

As I often say, on this program, the right plant in the right place, and a lot of tree problems pop up because the tree wasn't put in the right place, or it was the wrong tree for that location. And we've seen this happen. Trees have an interesting history here in the Central Valley. And in the Bay Area. As far as popularity goes, it seems like every generation has been subject to the perfect tree. So back in the 50s and 60s, it was the Modesto ash, for example, which turned out to end up having a lot of problems. And we've seen that repeated with other tree varieties. And I'm sure it happens across the country as well, where a species gets over populated and problems develop. And it's again, right plant in the right place.

Michael Santos  17:46  

Absolutely, I think that is probably where we see, I guess, some of the most common problems were really the wrong species was planted in the wrong location and the future growth, the size, structure, maintenance and so forth was really not properly considered whether that's because it's too close to a house foundation, or it's too close to hardscape like walkways, patios and decks or it's near an arbor or there's some other structure that's partially above it, you know, impinging on the crown. But right tree in the right location is paramount. And so I would encourage all your listeners to really do their homework and, and because trees are a big element and rather permanent in the landscape to really do their homework, before planting trees to make sure that you have a right species, that's not only going to look good when you plant it, and in the first few years, but then stand the test of time and increase in value and attractiveness over a long period of time. And I know in your show in the past, you  recommended different resources. And one of those is the Cal Poly Select-a-Tree website, which has very good objective information on the tree with photographs.

Farmer Fred 2  19:04  

It is an excellent website that lists the pros and cons of just about every tree grown, I think and it's a great resource to use. If you want to find out more about a particular tree you're interested in, just do an internet search for Cal Poly select tree and that site will come up it's very good information that you can find there.

Michael Santos  19:27  

Absolutely. I'd say another one which I know you've also mentioned which is a stellar site is the University of California Cooperative Extension, their Integrated Pest Management website because there people can also search individual trees and get a feel for the kinds of issues that they may have, whether they're a living thing or a biotic issue, whether it's a pest or a disease or if it's a biotic disorder caused by a soil issue, water issue or in poor nutrition. Additional issue and that site has  also some excellent information that can help individuals ferret out, you know, problem trees to perhaps not include in their thought process for, you know, installing them in their on their property.

Farmer Fred 2  20:16  

Yes indeed, there's a lot of good information provided by the University of California Ag and natural resources. And if you want to do a specific search, use your favorite internet search tool, and put in the name of the tree followed by the letters, UCANR. So, put in the name of the tree, then UCANR and up will pop probably the IPM page that you're talking about for that particular tree. And you'll be amazed at the number of things that can go wrong with trees.

Michael Santos  20:45  

Yeah, times, it seems like it can be a, you know, an endless amount of, you know, disorders or pest problems. But I often find that, you know, if you have the right tree in the right location for the right here, right microclimate, and it's maintained properly, that oftentimes just by by starting off with, you know, the right tree, and then applying good cultural requirements for that tree during its life, that alone can lessen the type of problems that you can expect to have with that tree.

Farmer Fred  21:23  

I bet one area where you get a lot of calls on when you make house calls are plants that were put in, trees or large shrubs, that were intended to be a privacy screen. And over the years, a lot of inappropriate trees have been recommended for privacy screens, I'm looking at you coast Redwood, and people plant them too close to a fence usually, because they're trying to protect their property from the view from the two story house next door. But people, I think, tend to forget one basic rule of line of sight. And that is, the closer you plant that screening plant near the area that you want to keep private, the quicker you're going to get privacy. In other words, don't put these privacy screens at the very edge of your property, put them in towards that hot tub, or that swimming pool, obviously not impinging upon possible root damage, but close enough where you can get some degree of privacy a lot quicker than if you had planted it in the back 40.

Michael Santos  22:28  

I think that's absolutely right, Fred, because when privacy screens are installed at the fence line, or the property line, oftentimes, those can be one in the same that, you know, as soon as that plant material begins to mature, there becomes an increasing amount of burden on the property owner to maintain this screen. And to do so without perhaps you know, interrupting the neighbor and dropping, having their their maintenance company drop, you know branches and leaves in the neighbor's yard to where they'll have to pick those up, or just if the neighbor doesn't want to have those branches over into their their space, it creates, you know, an ongoing issue. And then sometimes that can foster, you know, a stronger level of disagreement between the two parties. So offsetting and bringing the plant material in, regardless of what it is to an appropriate offset from the property line is very beneficial, and it will be better growing environment for the screen as well.

Farmer Fred  23:34  

I was part of the Tree Advisory Committee with the Sacramento Tree Foundation for a number of years. And it seems we spent a lot of meetings trying to find that perfect privacy screen tree, a fast growing, narrow, tall tree. And, let's face it, I mean, the people who hybridize trees are getting better and better at finding narrow, tall growing, fast growing trees. But people complicate matters when they plant too many of them too close together, thinking they're going to get a screen a lot quicker when in reality, you're just shortening the life of those trees because you've cramped them too much.

Michael Santos  24:14  

That's correct, you know if the plant material is installed on a really aggressive tight on center spacing, why that may give you more of a initial presence and an initial screen in the first few years of growth and begin to satisfy whatever the screening issue you know is at hand. Long term, it creates more stress on the trees as they compete  for sun, water, soil nutrients and and so forth as well as future maintenance activity. So I always encourage clients to make sure that the spacing is a reasonable on-center spacing, a balance between If we want to have a good screen, that's gonna, that's going to last a long time, but not so close that eventually it's going to add to excessive competition and then maybe begin to adversely affect the health of that screen. Just when it's really providing its full value. Make sure that when you're evaluating tree companies, you really do a good job of vetting them and understand what their reputation is like. I would encourage them to go and see some of their work that they have performed. And I always tell clients that when you have a professional, a really good professional crew pruning whether it's your oak tree or your, your London plane or an elm, one of the marks of a good tree company is that the non professional probably won't notice that the tree was pruned. There you go.

Farmer Fred  25:51  

There you go. That's very true. Michael Santos consulting arborist in the San Francisco Bay Area also with the American Society of Consulting Arborists, if you need to find a consulting arborist near where you live, type in ASCA, then a dash, consultants.org. ASCA-consultants.org and click on the tab that says find a consulting arborist. Well, there's the barking dogs indicating we have to wrap this up. Michael Santos, thank you so much for a few minutes of your time explaining what a consulting arborist is.

Michael Santos  26:28  

Thank you, Fred. It was my pleasure.

Farmer Fred  26:34  

You know, the best day to inspect your trees for possible hazards is today. Take a visual inventory of any possible future tree damage before you, your house, or your car become the next victim of a falling tree or branch. How about leaning trees? Are your trees not as upright as the result of recent heavy winds? Can you see newly upheaved roots or soil around those trees? Then, immediate action is required. Call in a professional, certified, bonded, and insured consulting arborist to do an on site inspection. If you have a tree, though, that has been leaning for a number of years, that tree could still be a hazard during wet, windy weather. Take periodic photographs that can help you determine if a greater lean is developing. When you line up that shot, line it up so that the angle of the tree is in the same shot as a solid straight vertical object, such as the side of a house or a straight fence or just get out there and measure the lean on a regular basis if it's close to a fence. What about multiple trunk trees? This codominant condition can result in breakage of major tree parts during a storm. Usually these trunks are weakly attached. Inspect the point where the two trunks meet. If you see slitting beginning, call in that arborist. Trees with many branches arising from the same point on the trunk are prone to breaking during wind storms. Thin out multiple branches, prune out any split branches. If you see storm damaged branches hanging from the tree, remove them as soon as possible. Do you see cracks in trunks or branches? Measure the depths of any cracks with a ruler. If those cracks are more than three inches deep call in that consulting arborist. Look for dead branches. Branches that have completely died are very likely to fall off in a storm. And don't forget about cavities and decay. Large, open pockets where branches meet the trunk or at the base of the trunk can mean big trouble. The presence of mushrooms on the bark or on exposed roots may indicate wood decay. That's when it's a good idea to call in a consulting arborist.

Farmer Fred 2  28:38  

The Garden Basics podcast is going to a winter schedule, maybe just like your favorite local nursery. November through January, Garden Basics will come out once a week on Fridays. Then, as the weather warms back up in February, we'll return to our twice a week schedule. Thank you for listening, subscribing, and leaving comments. We appreciate that you've included us in your garden life.