GB 188 Bermudagrass Control Tips. How Plants Communicate. Thin Your Seedlings!

Show Transcript

GB 188 TRANSCRIPT Bermudagrass Control Tips. How Plants Communicate. Compost Tea. April Thinning.

Farmer Fred  0:00  

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred. Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred  0:31  

Can bermudagrass be controlled, or is it forever? America’s Favorite Retired College Horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, has tips for converting a bermudagrass turf area into another lawn type or to control it to the point you can use that area to expand your garden.  Organic advocate Steve Zien tells us how plants communicate to get the nutrients they need and to ward off invading pests. And, he talks about using compost tea for increasing the good guys in your soil biology.   Also, we get a Quick Tip about a very necessary, but psychologically difficult garden task: removing excess fruit from your deciduous fruit trees in mid-Spring.  We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots. And we will do it all in under 30 minutes. Let’s go!

Bermudagrass Control Tips 

Farmer Fred  1:34  

We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast. There's a lot of different ways you can get your questions in; we'll have that list later on in the show. And Fran in Lodi, California emails us at Fred at farmerfred.com And she says, "I read your article regarding tips to keep the grass alive in the Lodi News Sentinel and found it informative." Thank you. She says, "I have several questions and would appreciate your advice. I live in Lodi and over time, Bermuda grass has taken over approximately 70% of my lawn. I'm interested in overseeding it with Fescue grass seed. I have questions about that though. Is this the proper grass seed to use? Can I overseed in April or is there a better time? Should I mix the fertilizer with the seed? And if so, what type? Thank you for your help." Ah yes, Bermuda grass. I think it's one Farmer Fred's garden rules, like number one or number two: Bermuda grass is forever. Debbie Flower is here, our favorite retired college horticultural professor. Have you ever battled Bermuda grass? Silly question.

Debbie Flower  2:36  

I'm battling it here. I don't think it's a cross country problem. But we are in central California as is Lodi, a little south of us. Bermuda grass is very aggressive, it's very tolerant of hot dry conditions. And, as you have said, Bermuda grass is forever. One of the reasons is that it has a very deep root system. It can go down two feet deep depending on soil and water conditions. And it also has  underground stems from which it grows. It can travel long distances, and of course it flowers as well. There are improved types of Bermuda grass that are sold as sod and are more desirable for the lawn. And that's because they don't flower as quickly. So you don't have to deal with those flower heads all the time.

Farmer Fred  3:19  

It's not a pretty flower either. It looks like an upside down turkey leg.

Debbie Flower  3:22  

Yes, right. I have yet to meet someone who wants a Bermuda grass lawn, even one of the improved types. So yes, it's a problem and it's something you have to stay on top of it will be difficult to overseed because it will luxuriate in the conditions that the fescue will grow and so she can put the fescue lawn in but she will have the Bermuda grass forever.

Farmer Fred  3:46  

The thing is, though, Bermuda needs the sun, and if you put in a fescue lawn, you could adjust your mower blade so it is at the highest setting, so there'd be a lot of shade on that Bermuda grass. Bermuda grass is typically mowed very low, maybe a half inch to one inch. Fescue is best mowed at two and a half to three and a half inches. So if you've got that shade on the Bermuda grass by growing the fescue grass tall, you have a better chance of limiting its progress.

Debbie Flower  4:15  

Yes, the lawn I have out front, that my husband requested, is a no mow lawn, and it is all fescue. We started it from seed. We had to battle the weeds for the first couple of years. Now we do get some Bermuda, but it is mostly at the edge along the driveway.

Farmer Fred  4:34  

As far as fertilizing that brand new lawn there is starter fertilizer out there. And usually the process when it comes to overseeding a lawn is to detach, aerate, overseed, put down the fertilizer, and then put down a thin layer of mulch on top. And don't forget to roll the area, too.

Debbie Flower  4:54  

You can rent a roller. They're pretty big, but they're not very heavy because When you get them home, you put water in them to make them heavy. And the point is to push down just enough on the seed so that it makes contact with the soil and the mulch.

Farmer Fred  5:10  

And then you have to keep that area moist for about two weeks or so, until the seeds germinate and pop up. And generally speaking, you don't go back to a regular watering regimen with that fescue lawn until after its first mowing, and that could be what, four weeks, right?

Debbie Flower  5:27  

Right. Fescue is relatively slow to germinate in the grass world, it can take two weeks or more. So be patient, don't think you've  lost it by not having germination. And then yes, it has to get well established and have a good root system before you mow it. So you need to get a good four inches tall before you mow it.

Farmer Fred  5:49  

One trick if you want to go this route, Fran, is to solarize your soil before you put in that fescue lawn. That Fescue grass is actually best planted in September, October. April is like the second best time of the year. But at least if you're doing it in September and October, and you have the Bermuda grass already there, it is starting to go into dormancy at that time, so you have a better chance of controlling it. In the meantime, in the summertime, what you can do is, during the hottest time of the year, maybe for four weeks, six weeks, even eight weeks, mow that Bermuda real real short, water the area thoroughly and then cover it with clear plastic but seal it well around the edges. And that can raise the temperature of that soil up to 120-140 degrees. And that really helps control the Bermuda grass. Now, Debbie, you've done soil solarization, I have, too. And you can have a lot of success with it.

Debbie Flower  6:42  

Yes, I did it in an area at a different house where I had another pernicious weed, which was nutsedge. Both of these weeds have underground storage organs. And ultimately, those aren't totally killed by this solarization process. The plant declines enough that you can get ahead of it.

Farmer Fred  7:00  

Exactly. Now, it would be better if you decided not to put in the fescue but instead wanted to put in plants instead of turf because that way you could have several inches of mulch which would even thwart that Bermuda grass even more.

Debbie Flower  7:14  

Yes, that's true. But the answer to Fran's question, yes, she can overseed with fescue, she will be fighting the Bermuda unless she solarizes it first. There is one chemical I'm aware of that will knock the Bermuda back but it will not kill it. Check at your local nursery. If she does use the fescue, seed the area very heavily. It is a bunch grass. So where one seed germinates, you will get a bunch of grass and the next seed over that germinates, you get another bunch of grass. And so if you want a thick lawn, you need lots of bunches of grass, it will not travel along the surface of the soil and put up blades of grass all along that like a Kentucky bluegrass would do.

Farmer Fred  7:57  

Well, that's another option too, Fran. Instead of going from seed with the fescue, roll it out as sod, after you've solarized the area and have really knocked back that Bermuda grass. And that would make it even harder for the Bermuda grass to jump back up.

Debbie Flower  8:11  

Yes, that's a good point.

Farmer Fred  8:12  

But it's an ongoing battle, Fran. Bermuda grass, it's forever, but you can slow it down. And when you see it pop up, pull it out.

Debbie Flower  8:21  

And that'll be a lifelong hobby. 

Farmer Fred  8:25  

Yeah, I just consider it a hobby. Thank you, Debbie.

Debbie Flower  8:28  

You're welcome, Fred.

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Farmer Fred  8:33  

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HOW PLANTS COMMUNICATE. IS COMPOST TEA RIGHT FOR YOU?

Farmer Fred  10:28  

If you saw the movie Avatar way back when, you know that plants, in the case of Avatar, trees, can communicate with each other. And actually, science has proven that to be true. Steve Zien is here, the organic advocate for Sacramento and beyond, owner of Living Resources company, it's more than communication that's going on below the ground, isn't it?

Steve Zien  10:51  

Yeah,  plants have evolved over time on this planet to work in a mutually beneficial or symbiotic relationship with the soil biology. They actually communicate with a soil biology. Now they don't use cell phones, they don't text, they produce what are called root exudates, you know, like perspiration coming out of the roots, and the plants use up to 40% of their energy to produce these root exudates. They use these root exudates to communicate with the soil biology. For example, if that plant needs phosphorus, and it's not getting enough phosphorus, it will exude particular chemicals out of that plant root that will signal particular kinds of soil biology that are really good at extracting and making phosphorus available to the plant roots. It's kind of like, calling up your local grocery store and saying, 'I want to come pick up my groceries. Can you have them ready?' So they're  communicating with the soil biology to get the nutrients they want. If they have a pest problem, they exude different chemicals. And it will either discourage the pest in some instances, or it will encourage another type of soil biology to fight that off. One of my favorite pictures, and I can't show you the picture, but it's of a nematode trapping fungi and you can go to YouTube and look up' nematode trapping fungi'. And these fungal strands, these long strings, are just sitting there in the soil when the plant root exudes a particular chemical because it's being attacked by the nematode. And it wants these fungi to help control them. This chemical that gets exuded out of the plant root tells the nematode or tells the fungi, the nematodes are there. The fungi get all excited they start producing these really small rings. Those rings then exude a chemical that attracts the nematode. The nematode goes inside the ring, swims inside the ring. Nematodes are like microscopic worms. It's kind of like a Venus Flytrap, when a fly goes into a Venus Flytrap. The trap closes up with the nematode trapping fungi. Those rings, when they get touched on the inside, swell up with fluid and they trap the nematode. And then the fungi starts exuding chemicals that will help enable the digestion of that nematode, they will eat the nematode but because it's decomposing from those chemicals that the fungi gets rid of. So without this exchange of exudates, none of this would happen. We wouldn't have life on this planet. It's really a critical symbiotic relationship. And like I said, 40% of the energy that the plants use goes to producing these exudates. And if you don't have that soil biology down there, they're  missing out on that benefit.

Farmer Fred  14:04  

So how do you increase the soil biology to encourage this sort of activity?

Steve Zien  14:08  

You don't rototill. Because then you're killing the soil biology. Don't use synthetic fertilizers, you use organic fertilizers, you put down compost, you put down earthworm castings, you put down woodchips and you just put those materials on the soil surface, you do not disturb the soil at all. That will go a long ways to creating this mutually beneficial relationship.

Farmer Fred  14:35  

I think we should point out, too, that just like real life, this is real life. And it takes a long time to see results. You have to have a lot of patience and perseverance. It's not an overnight fix. It's something that does take years of work to get your soil in that sort of tip top shape. Although you will see benefits very soon afterwards. For complete benefits, you need to keep it up, year after year after year.

Steve Zien  15:01  

Yeah, for the most part, I agree. But I will tell you that I had one client, who put down six inches of worm castings at the beginning of the rainy season, and she had rock hard soil, we couldn't get a pick into it. And after the rainy season was over, after those six inches of worm castings disappeared into the soil, she had nice loose soil. So with that much worm castings, she added huge amounts of soil biology relatively quickly and created nice, loose soil with a wide variety of pore spaces, that good soil structure that we want, within a six month period of time. Now, most earthworm castings are expensive, and most people aren't going to be able to afford putting down six inches of worm castings. What you can do is get some worm castings and make what's called worm tea. And you basically put the worm castings in like a tea bag, and put it in a five gallon bucket, getting an aquarium pump to pump air into that. It's a water containing bucket with a tea in there, and brew that for 24 to 48 hours, and then spray that on your soil and then water it in. There will be huge, huge amounts of soil biology in that tea.

Farmer Fred  16:24  

The key though, is keeping it activated, correct? 

Steve Zien  16:28  

By activated, I'm assuming you mean that it has to have the oxygen being pumped into it, correct? If you store it for a day, there's so much soil biology in that water. And if you're not aerating it,  the soil biology will use up all the oxygen that's in there very, very quickly, and they will die. So you need to take it from when you're brewing it, to put it out in the garden or landscape as quickly as you can.

Farmer Fred  16:57  

Beneath my worm bin, I have a circular worm bin with a drain spout, and I keep a container underneath that drain spout. And as the watery material in the worm bin descends, it comes out and collects in the container. What do I do with that stuff?

Steve Zien  17:18  

You can pour it around on the soil, it's not going to have huge amounts of soil biology, but it'll have wonderful nutrition. The reason why it's not going to have a whole lot of soil biology is because it's a liquid and the soil biology that may or may not, that was in there didn't have enough oxygen. And so the desirable kinds of soil biology won't be there, but the nutrients will. I've got a worm bin, mine just collects on the bottom. And once a week I go out and I drain it and I just  pour it on some plants that I think would benefit from some great nutrition and  that liquid material,  when it's poured into the soil, it is in a form that the plant roots can immediately use. And it'll also feed that soil biology that we've been talking about.

Farmer Fred  18:10  

My understanding is there have been no peer reviewed studies of that process.

Steve Zien  18:16  

Of the compost tea? 

Farmer Fred  18:18  

Correct. 

Steve Zien  18:19  

There have been a number of studies done at universities, making compost tea in particular, because organic farmers were using it primarily for disease control. And the problem was that  the quality of the compost tea varies tremendously with the quality of the compost, and they were not testing the compost to see who was living there. And if you don't have the right biology in that compost, the quality of the compost tea is not going to be there. It's really important when you're brewing compost tea, which is why I like worm castings, because the quality of the worm castings is almost always excellent. But the research done doesn't always necessarily take into consideration the quality of the compost. And so the results that they're getting are questionable.

Farmer Fred  19:16  

How is tea made from worm castings any different than what's pouring out from my worm bin?

Steve Zien  19:22  

Stuff that's coming out of your worm bin has not had air pumped into it, and the teas that are brewed, you're pumping air into it all the time. And that soil biology needs that oxygen, and without that oxygen, they're gonna die. And so is the content of soil biology. And the stuff that comes out the bottom of your worm bin is not going to have enough oxygen in it to support a very large biological population of soil microbes.

Farmer Fred  19:56  

So this is really a process that should be done in one fell swoop. You can't really store the worm tea, you have to make it and use it right away.

Steve Zien  20:05  

Correct.

Farmer Fred  20:06  

I have nothing else to say.

Steve Zien  20:09  

I mean, it really works really, really well. 

Farmer Fred  20:13  

Says Steve Zien. 

Steve Zien  20:15  

Organic farmers have been using compost tea for decades, And  have had wonderful success. And  I think organic farmers and other people who use this,  the compost tea or the worm casting tea, will tell you because the biological makeup of the compost, and the worm castings is variable. And we don't have the technology to control that yet. And until that happens, what comes out of that tea is basically unknown. You can take a class, the soil foodweb has a course that you can take online, where you get a microscope, and you can identify who is in your compost who is in your worm castings, what little microscopic organisms, and you can find out whether you've got the appropriate critters that you want before you brew that tea. And so once you find that compost or worm castings that have the critters that you want, then you know you have really good quality tea. And if we could somehow figure out a way to put a little aerator in a bottle and put that on the shelf with that aerator, then we could get some sort of standardized, potentially standardized product, but we're not there yet.

Farmer Fred  21:39  

Chances are we'll have links in today's show notes about not only the nematode trapping fungi YouTube video that I'm sure Steve will forward to me, but also links to commercial aerators that you can  purchase for this very purpose.  I have to say I am a bit skeptical, I will let you the listener decide for yourself whether compost tea is right for you or not. We'll have links in today's show notes, as well as probably a comment or two from some other sources of information about compost tea in Friday's "Beyond the Basics" newsletter. Steve Zien, organic advocate for Sacramento and beyond, President of Living Resources Company, thanks so much for the information.

Steve Zien  22:24  

It's been fun as always, thanks.

GardenBasics.net and the “Beyond Basics” Newsletter

Farmer Fred  22:32  

The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast has a lot of information posted at each episode in the show notes. Maybe you’d rather read than listen? Not a problem, a complete transcript is posted, and you can find that link in the show notes or on our new homepage, gardenbasics.net, where you can find that link as well as all the previous episodes of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. There, you can leave a message or link up with our social media pages, including our You Tube video page. And at garden basics dot net. click on the tab at the top of the page to read the Garden Basics “Beyond Basics” newsletter, which usually has a bonus podcast attached to it. Plus, in the show notes, there are links to any products or books mentioned during the show, and other helpful links for even more information. Plus, you can listen to just the portions of the show that interest you, it’s been divided into easily accessible chapters.  Want to leave us a question? Again, check the links at garden basics.net. Also, when you click on any episode at garden basics.net, you’ll find a link to Speakpipe, where you can leave us an audio question without a making a phone call. Or, go to them directly: speak pipe dot com slash garden basics. You want to call us? We have that number posted at garden basics dot net. Spoiler alert: it’s 916-292-8964, 916-292-8964. Email? Sure! Send it, along with your pictures to fred@farmerfred.com. Or again, go to garden basics dot net and get that link. And if you send us a question, be sure to tell us where you’re gardening, because all gardening is local. Find it all at garden basics dot net.   

The Benefits of Thinning Vegetable and Flower Seedlings, and Deciduous Fruit Trees in April-May

Farmer Fred  24:27  

Late April and early May is a good time for planting many easy to grow vegetables from seed here: carrots, corn, cucumbers, eggplant, radishes, summer squash and winter squash. The problem is: because the emerging plants are small, many gardeners don’t have the heart to thin them out to proper spacing.   The result is an undersized crop, greater incidence of pests and diseases, or, too much of a good thing. The popular summer squash, zucchini, is a perfect example of the latter. Here are the planting and thinning instructions for zucchini seeds from the Burpee Seeds website:  “Sow one to two seeds about 36 inches apart. Cover with one inch of fine soil. Firm lightly and keep evenly moist. Zucchini seedlings emerge in 10-14 days. Thin to one plant when seedlings have two sets of leaves.”  Even hardened backyard farmers will ignore those spacing instructions, let alone keeping only one plant. And what happens? Overwhelmed gardeners go on midnight runs in August, surreptitiously placing bags of oversized zucchini on neighbors’ front porches.  The bottom line: read and follow all planting instructions.  Your backyard deciduous fruit trees – apples, peaches, nectarines, plums, apricots, pluots and more – need a bit of tough love this month, as well: thinning the fruit. It might break your heart to remove most of those future edibles in April. However, leaving six inches (or more) of space between each piece of fruit now will result in larger fruit and less stress on your trees this summer. You won’t have to worry about broken branches that are going to start sagging (and breaking) as the overcrowded fruit gets heavier and heavier. Moreover, because of the lack of crowded and rubbing fruit, the remaining fruit will have better exposure and ripen more evenly.  The good news: there are plenty of food-producing backyard vines, shrubs and trees that don’t require crop thinning.  Because of their small size, cherries are not usually thinned from backyard trees. Other small-fruited plants such as blueberries, strawberries, blackberries and raspberries also do not require fruit thinning. They may, however, need to have their older wood or runners removed annually after harvest. Nut crops, such as almonds and walnuts, are not thinned. Citrus trees – oranges, lemons, mandarins, limes and other fruit-bearing evergreen trees – do not usually need much fruit thinning.  Also, be sure to add several inches of an organic mulch beneath all your fruit trees to conserve precious soil moisture, control weed growth and to slowly feed the soil as those wood chips break down. Just don’t let that mulch touch up against the trunk of the trees.  

Farmer Fred  28:05  

Garden Basics With Farmer Fred comes out every Tuesday and Friday and is brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, visit our website, GardenBasics dot net. That’s where you can find out about the free, Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you so much for listening.